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How to Prioritize People and Profit

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About This Episode

Successful leaders want to make a profit, but they also want to be good to their people. Joining us for this episode is Joel Manby, the former CEO, and director of SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment, and the author of the popular book Love Works. Joel was also featured on CBS’ hit show, Undercover Boss, where he made an impact on the show’s 18 million viewers by demonstrating the beauty of servant leadership.

 

Joel is going to share with us how leaders can make sure they are prioritizing their most important asset – their team – while also making sure the business is thriving.

1. The art of leadership is the intersection of profit, guest results, and employee results.

That’s your leadership “sweet spot.” Just focusing on one area might lead to success in that area, but not overall health. Good leaders know how to focus on all three to make their organization as healthy as possible.

2. The level of enthusiasm of your customer experience will never go any higher than the enthusiasm of your own employees.

Your people are your front line, the face of your company, and are interacting with your clients every day. If they aren’t energized by their jobs and have a shared sense of values, your customers will eventually sense that.

3. When making a decision, always ask yourself: “What’s the worst thing that can happen, and can I live with that?”

If the marketing team makes a decision that you might not think is best, is it okay to let it go or should you intervene? Or if there’s a spreadsheet that isn’t designed exactly the way you like it, can you live with that? This question will help you refocus on the bigger issues and let go of some of the things you should be delegating.

 

How would you describe your company’s values? Could one of your team members describe them accurately?
Talk about the idea of prioritizing people over profit and where your company currently sits in regard to that idea.
How do you think one of your clients would describe their interactions with your company? Would you change anything about that?
Do any of your values align/not align with your company’s values? For those that don’t align, what can you do to bring the two closer together?

Profit has to be seen as a result. It is not the goal in and of itself.

Joel Manby

You should spend as much time on your people results as you do your financial results.

Joel Manby

The art of leadership is where profit, employee satisfaction and customer satisfaction intersect.

Joel Manby

Always promote people based on your people results.

Joel Manby

(02:01) Joel answers the question: “If you could be one athlete, what athlete would you be?”

(05:45) Joel talks about his background as the former CEO of Sea World and being featured on Undercover Boss. 

(12:33) How can leaders really place value on their people while still maximizing profit, especially when going through a crisis like during the last year?

(14:11) “The art of leadership is the intersection of profit, guest results, and employee results.”

(19:06) “Employees who are engaged and love their work and feel appreciated, outperform others.”

(20:05) The level of enthusiasm of your customer experience will never go any higher than the enthusiasm of your own employees. 

(20:34) How do you go about changing the culture when you are part of an organization that doesn’t hold these values?

(24:39) What are a few of the common mistakes leaders make when it comes to working with their teams?

(26:50) In every decision, ask this question: “What’s the worst thing that can happen, and can I live with it?”

(28:49) What is one practical step someone can take right now to move themselves forward in prioritizing people over profit?

(34:35) This week’s one next step: Go download Joel’s helpful guide for all leaders: “5 Leadership Mistakes to Avoid.”

Joel Manby:

When our company was put before 25 million people on that show, we were the highest rank episode versus the only thing that beat us that week was American Idol back when it was number one. So a lot of people saw it and we were just inundated. We don’t trust our leadership. We don’t believe in our leadership. And it was then that I realized millions of people in America felt this way and that’s what led me to write the book that you mentioned called Love Works.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to One Next Step, the most practical business podcast in the world. Helping you get more done, grow your business and lead your team with confidence, with tips and tools you didn’t get in business school. Here are your hosts, Tricia Sciortino and Lisa Zeeveld.

Tricia Sciortino:

Welcome to One Next Step. The practical business podcast that helps you run your business so it stops running you. I’m Tricia.

Lisa Zeeveld:

And I’m LZ. And today’s episode we’re going to talk about balancing attention that many entrepreneurs face. That is how to prioritize both profit and people.

Tricia Sciortino:

Joining us today, Joel Manby, the former CEO and Director of SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment, as well as the author of the popular book, Love Works.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah, and that’s not all. Joel was also featured on CBS’s has hit show Undercover Boss. Again, one of my favorites, where he made an impact on the shows 18 million viewers by demonstrating the beauty of servant leadership. Today, Joel is going to share with us how leaders can make sure they’re prioritizing their most important asset, their team. While also making sure the business is thriving. I am so looking forward to talking with Joel, so let’s get started.

Tricia Sciortino:

Welcome to the podcast, Joel. We are so excited to have you with us today.

Joel Manby:

Thank you. It’s great to be here. I’m excited.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yes. Thank you. I cannot wait for the conversation, but before we get there, I have a question for you.

Joel Manby:

Oh boy.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. Right? You like my pause. My intentional-

Lisa Zeeveld:

I think he’s scared now.

Tricia Sciortino:

I know. Yeah. If you could be one athlete, who would that athlete be?

Joel Manby:

Oh boy. I’ll just go with my quick gut reaction, which is not going to be popular with everybody, but Tom Brady is one.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yes.

Lisa Zeeveld:

It’s very popular with Tricia. Very popular.

Tricia Sciortino:

I was hoping you might say Tom Brady.

Joel Manby:

I grew up in Michigan, so I was a Michigan fan and the guy… There were 198 other people drafted before him, sixth round, no one had any expectation for him, but he believed in himself. And I think that’s so true for leaders. We have to believe in ourselves because we will go through difficult times and people won’t believe in us at times. I’d have to say my second, Phil Mickelson, I really admire because he’s the oldest guy to ever win a major. And he’s always played in the shadow of Tiger, which probably a greatest player of all time, but he’s still continuing to improve himself and get better to the point where he won a major at 50 years old first time ever. So I admire both men because they achieve more than people expected of them. So I think that’s great.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah.

Lisa Zeeveld:

I like that.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. Obviously, I’m a new Brady fan. So I kind of converted to Tom Brady. I used to be the typical skeptic, like a hater, if you will, right? Oh, he wins everything, he’s a cheater. All the rhetoric that you would hear years prior. And then, I don’t know, I just really started researching his history. And like you said, kind of where he came from and what he has accomplished in his career is so impressive. It really changed my mind. And so now I’m a huge fan of his for the same reason, is that he, regardless of the doubters or people who didn’t believe in him, he has absolutely risen to the occasion time and time again, and continues to. And it’s just the most, he’s just the most impressive man. I find him absolutely fascinating, so. I love that

Joel Manby:

As a couple Well, they can do a lot of good for the world. They have the resources to do so. We’ll see how that goes. That story has to be continued. But I agree with you. Everybody makes mistakes and yeah, maybe he deflated football a few pounds, but I’m not making excuses for that. But I think he learned from it and we haven’t seen a pattern of that. And so I think people have to look at their own, the speck in their own eye, before looking at the log in other people’s eyes as it says in the Bible. So I think that’s a good story with him.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Tricia actually even abandoned her prior favorite team.

Tricia Sciortino:

I did.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Like love them. She was a Carolina Panthers fan, no more.

Tricia Sciortino:

I totally flat left them. My husband would say, I was a fair weather fan. I actually really rooted for Cam Newton. I really enjoyed Cam Newton. I wanted him to do well and succeed and win. And when the Carolina Panthers kind of turned over that whole team and new owners came in and he was gone and then Brady was moving to the Bucs, I said, okay, I’m realigning myself with a new strategy.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Realigning with a winner.

Tricia Sciortino:

I like winners. And so I did, I’m horrible. I’m horrible. I found a new fan base.

Joel Manby:

Everybody likes a winner.

Tricia Sciortino:

Not everybody. Some people hate the winners.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Well, that is a good segue into stories. Like you said, Joel, and you have a fascinating story. And so I just really think that we should set the stage with your background. I mean, you have run a massive theme park like SeaWorld, right? You’ve also been featured on television on Undercover Boss, which is one of my favorite TV shows. And now you are an author. A very popular, well received book. So share with us your story. I’d love to hear that.

Joel Manby:

Sure. I’m happy to do that. I’ll try to you the two minute version, but I grew up in Michigan, first of all. And I think one thing that’s important to know and my background, I grew up very poor, actually. My dad, for a number of years, was making about 2,500 bucks a year. He was losing his own business. The most he ever made in his life was $25,000 in a year. And so it taught me, I knew I was going to have to make it on my own. I wasn’t going to have any special help or privilege to get into good schools or whatever. But I was able through a lot of hard work, went to two private schools that were funded by scholarships, Albion College in Michigan and then Harvard Business School.

Joel Manby:

And I’m proud of that because I did it on my own. I didn’t think I was going to be in business. I wanted to be a pro athlete until I literally graduated from college. I was trying to make it pro baseball until I went to a tryout camp and faced people throwing 98 miles an hour. And I look like a ceiling fan, just waving. I guarded Magic Johnson in high school basketball, the hall of fame player and I held him the 42 points.

Lisa Zeeveld:

What? What a cool story.

Tricia Sciortino:

Wow. I know, I can’t believe he didn’t pick a famous baseball player as your athlete to be. You went football.

Joel Manby:

I played some football, but anyway, I wanted to be a pro athlete, but that didn’t work out. I help pave the way for others. Obviously Magic did pretty well. And I think he set a state record against us with that 42 points. I think I allowed more points than any other human being ever in guarding him, but watching him to go by. But anyway, basically I helped start Saturn, which was a car company that was all about treating people the right way. And because of the success of Saturn, my big break from a leadership standpoint was they wanted a Saturn person to run Saab North America because Saab had a great car, but really lousy marketing and distribution. So I was able to be CEO of that at only 34, which inside the GM system, that was very young. And that was kind of my big break.

Joel Manby:

Once I was the number one person, it’s easier to get that job at other places. But I will say the most formative, most important point I’d want your listeners to hear in the story is, all that time in the auto industry like that first 20 years at Saturn and Saab, I still felt a huge angst on leadership because I, as a believer, I grew up and I had a faith. I was a follower of Jesus, and I felt like, hey, that kind of leadership, that’s what the Bible says, but I don’t see it anywhere in what I’m seeing in the auto industry. So I always had this angst that there had to be a better way. And it really wasn’t until I was on the board of Herschend Enterprises, which is a theme park company, that I saw servant leadership in action.

Joel Manby:

And it was really the Herschend brothers who taught me about leading with love and servant leadership. And I was 40 years old. So it took me till I was 40 to really understand servant leadership and how it could really impact an organization. And to answer your question on Undercover Boss and so forth, we were asked to be on that program. And for those not familiar with it, you go undercover and people don’t know who you are and that’s really true. This was the first season, so they definitely didn’t know who we were. But when our company was put before 25 million people on that show, we were the highest ranked episode versus the only thing that beat us that week was American Idol back when it was number one. So a lot of people saw it and we were just inundated with requests for, how do you have a culture like this?

Joel Manby:

I saw the same angst I was feeling all those years. I saw it in thousands of letters coming to me saying, we don’t trust our leadership. We don’t believe in our leadership. And it was then that I realized it wasn’t just me having this angst inside that there had to be a better way. Millions of people in America felt this way, and that’s what led me to write the book that you mentioned called Love Works. And it is all about servant leadership and that caring about your people surprise, surprise, also creates great financial results. And I would say that was the key point in my life from a leadership standpoint of going from the auto industry to the theme parks and leading with love. And really ever since then, LZ, I have basically been focused on teaching others that methodology, because I know how much it helped me that whatever time God gives me on this earth left that’s kind of how I want to spend my time.

Joel Manby:

I’m retired from full-time CEO work, but that’s how I want to spend my time either consult, speak or write on leading with love. And personally I have five kids, wonderful wife named Shannon, and it’s all good on the personal front. So that’s the two minute version.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Thank You. That’s incredible. And I did not know the car part of your story. So that is the automobile maker. So that’s fascinating. And I need to go back and do some more homework. Saturn was a great car. I mean, it was like revolutionary.

Joel Manby:

It was. It was a revolutionary concept but before then, no one talked about one price, no hassle approach automobiles. Now everybody’s doing it. Certainly with the internet, it’s almost impossible to have much negotiation anymore, but they were definitely ahead of their time. It was a really, really good experience. But I also love theme parks. There are a lot of fun and SeaWorld was a very difficult experience. I was there through incredibly difficult times. And that’s a whole… And if you ever want to have me back, that’s a whole podcast in itself. I mean, what happened there with the animal activists and the attacks on our company, death threats on me and my family, just because we had captive marine mammals. Save the whale, but kill the humans. I mean, it was a really crazy time, but that is a story for a different time. But I learned a lot and I’m happy to share some of those insights at a different time.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Well, okay. So were poised now you’re going to have to come back, because I want to hear more.

Tricia Sciortino:

Oh yeah. You already agreed. So we have it recorded.

Lisa Zeeveld:

That’s right.

Tricia Sciortino:

So you’ll be back. But that is a great transition though, because as you talk about leading people with love and leading with kindness and that you can bring your heart to work, and that whole conceptual idea that I think a lot of people really do struggle with it. That they think there’s a separation between work and life, and you’re supposed to be and show up a certain way at work, and you’re not supposed to bring your person who you are. There’s this delineation. And especially now over the last 18 months of what’s been going on in the world, leading through crisis and understanding the value of your people, I feel like is more predominant today than it has literally ever been. So I would love for you to talk about how leaders really can place value on their people and to your point, still maximize profit and make money, especially when you’re going through a time of crisis.

Joel Manby:

Yeah. I think you nailed it, Tricia. This is the worst time, the most difficult time I’ve ever seen in leadership, maybe individual situations or companies, but not macro, the whole economy, everything we’ve gone through. I would start at a very high level to answer your question. First of all, profit has to be looked at as a result. It is not the goal in of itself. If the goal is to treat your customers really well and your employees really well, the profit will take care of itself. It’s like oxygen, right? We don’t live to breathe oxygen, but without it, we die. A business has to have profit. Without profit, it dies, but it shouldn’t be the goal in and of itself. And one of the things I’ve learned over the years is leadership, the art of leadership, is really the intersection of three circles.

Joel Manby:

The first circle is profit, but the second circle is the guest results. Are the guests happy? And the third circle is the employee results. Are the employees satisfied and engaged? Where those three intersect, that’s the art. That’s the perfect intersection. Any fool, so to speak, can maximize one of those three circles. If you give the employees everything they want, which is more time off and more pay, the company doesn’t make it. If you give customers everything they want, which is free service, you go out of business. And if you focus totally on profit at the expense of your customer or your employees, you’ll go out of business. So it’s the intersection of the three. And I think the other thing I would add is, most leaders I have seen, they tend to focus strictly on reviewing and analyzing the financial results.

Joel Manby:

And I would encourage people to spend just as much time on the people side of the business. And I mean, first of all, you have to define it, right? You have to define, what are my values in the organization? Most companies do define their values, but the second thing is, you have to teach it repeatedly over and over again to your people. Most organizations don’t do that. Thirdly, you have to measure it. Meaning, we all measure financial results, only about 20% of organizations have any kind of measurement system for their values. Meaning an employee survey and engagement survey, measuring your turnover, why are people leaving, exit interviews, giving all that information to senior management, that is really important. And the other thing, the fourth point I’d make is review it consistently because most people they talk about values, but all the meetings, all the time spent are financial reviews.

Joel Manby:

When I was at Herschend or SeaWorld, we spent just as much time in meetings reviewing people results as we did financial results. And I can tell you from 40 years experience, that is very, very rare. And the last thing is to fifthly is to always promote people based on your people results. So it’s the intersection of those three circles. And then it’s putting your money where your mouth is to define it, to teach it, to measure it, to review it and to promote based on it. That’s the way you show your people they’re important versus a bunch of lip service that, yeah, our culture is important, but let’s spend eight hours a day reviewing the financial results. So that’s how I would answer that question. And I’d have to say, unfortunately, it’s quite rare to find leaders who do what I just talked about.

Tricia Sciortino:

You are working too many hours and it’s bleeding over into your evenings and weekends. You are missing valuable family time, and honestly, life is zipping by you. Sound familiar? Let’s get uncomfortably honest here. How long has it been since you were fully present and felt peace? It’s probably too long. You know how I know? Because I’ve been there.

Lisa Zeeveld:

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Lisa Zeeveld:

I don’t think I have ever heard anyone talk about promoting people based on people results, but that speaks volumes, right? Because all the other things come after that, if you’ve got a great leader who can encourage, who can motivate, who can speak to your mission and your values, all the other things come.

Joel Manby:

It sounded… You said, as you say it, right? And even as I say it, it sounds like common sense, but it doesn’t happen. We talk about it. But then we promote someone who just hit the financial results, but they may be running over people to get there. At Herschend and SeaWorld, when I talk about re promote it, we also tied it to pay. So the top raises went to people who not only hit the financial results, but hit the value, the people results. And our bonuses were only paid to people who had a certain threshold on there people’s scores, how their people review them as leaders. So we put our money where our mouth is or was, and I think it’s really, really important, but again, quite rare.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. I think most people don’t get that employees who are engaged and love their work and feel appreciated, outperform others. All right. So if you don’t love your job and your job as a job, what is the effort you’re putting into that job? The effort is you’re just trying to keep the job that you don’t love versus the employee who loves showing up Monday morning, can’t wait because there they’re behind it, they believe in it, they’re motivated by and excited by it, and they feel treated well and appreciated. Those are the people that give you 110% of who they are, and that does translate into at the end of the day, revenue and profits, happy employees equals happy customers or guests, equals happy business owners.

Joel Manby:

You said it exactly. Very, very well. Another way I would paraphrase that is the level of enthusiasm of your customer experience can never go any higher than the enthusiasm of your own employees. And it’s amazing how many leaders just don’t see that or get that. I can tell just by how you guys, and of course meeting your founders of BELAY, I know you guys have that kind of culture and that kind of energy. That’s a wonderful thing because unfortunately it’s not seen very often.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Have you gone into an organization that, I’m thinking about our listeners here who say, I’m going into an organization who might maybe right now doesn’t have that. And they’re going to be in a top leadership position where they can definitely change some of that. How do you go about it? Because like you said, I mean, it’s definitely rooted in Christian values, right? You want to be a good person, you want to lead well, and maybe you’re becoming a leader of an organization who’s like, it’s only about the numbers. Where do you start?

Joel Manby:

Yeah. It’s a great question and I hear that a lot. I will say at a high level, you can have more impact than you think on your individual department or your team. And I would always encourage people, you’ll start with… If your organization doesn’t have a set of values, you can always create a set of values for your team or your department. It’s harder that way, but you can do it. And you go back to really those kinds of five points I made about, you define it and then you teach it and then you measure it and you review it and you promote base on it. Actually, all that can happen within your own department, again it’s harder, but it can happen. But I would also say on a more tougher side, if your leadership, if you go to senior leadership and they consistently “don’t get it” and the culture is bad and you are not getting their support, at some point, you probably have to leave that situation.

Joel Manby:

And earlier in my career, I wouldn’t have said that, but for me at SeaWorld, what I ran into at SeaWorld and having a few board members that there are a lot of unkind leaders or jerks, for lack of a better word, but in this case they were evil and they weren’t honest, and I should have seen that sooner, and I should have just call the spade a spade and probably should have left earlier. It took a lot out of my life and my health trying to fight evil leadership. I would also say to people, if you’re in that situation and you’ve tried two or three times, and they’re just not getting it, I would actually think about getting with ownership or leaders that really get it, because otherwise you’ll never get to what Tricia mentioned earlier, having no difference between your values at home and when you go to work and it all feels connected. That’s the way it’s supposed to be. As human beings, we want to be connected that way. And if we’re not do the best you can, but if leaders aren’t supportive, I think it’s time to move on.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah, it’s like control what you can. Try to control what you can, try and shift the tides, leverage your influence to maybe add values. But I agree, I think that if you’re up against a wall and the wall is not moving, it’s time to move on. I had that happen with me many, many years ago, 10 before I worked here at BELAY, where I left a career that I really, really loved because I no longer could align with the values and I was not changing them. And so I think it takes a lot of courage for people at that time to say, I have to move on because it’s what’s good for me as a person, like personally being conflicted like that, like how you said you were in the car and just living that conflict is so not healthy for us. So to be able to find a place you can be where you can align all those things together is maximum.

Joel Manby:

It leads a lot of other bad behaviors. Whether it’s drug issues, alcohol issues, stress issues. When we’re not aligned, it comes out in other places. And if you read, anybody wants to read Love Works, it has the story of the dark times as well. Which we don’t have time to go into, but it was a result of not being aligned with that leadership at SeaWorld and just my own personal difficulties because of that. So I think you guys are both right. You do the best you can, but at some point, if you’re not aligned to have to move on.

Lisa Zeeveld:

What are a few of the common mistakes leaders make when it comes to working with their teams?

Joel Manby:

It’s interesting you ask that. Because I just gave a talk on that. I’m actually thinking of my next book is going to be about 40 years of leadership experience, what are the most common mistakes I’ve seen. So I’ve had a chance to research and think about a lot. And they’re really high level things. I mean, the first is actually… First thing is putting people behind profits. So we’ve already talked about that. And I think we’ve hit that really well. The second thing I see more than anything else is a distrust of people working for leaders. They say they trust them, but they don’t show that in how they delegate and how they communicate. So one tool I always use, which is in the book, it’s called a RACI chart, but it’s who’s responsible, who has to approve, who has to be consulted, who has to be informed on every single decision on the big decisions. And when you clarify that you are showing trust in the people who really have that responsibility.

Joel Manby:

And I see most entrepreneurs and leaders, they can’t quite let go and they can’t quite fully give the authority, and that hinders an organization from growing. I’ve had the great gift of leading small and really large organizations. And I know for a fact, you can’t scale unless you really trust your people.

Lisa Zeeveld:

I think we could probably write a chapter for you in that book with all the thousands of leaders we’ve seen here at BELAY. Delegation and trust, very, very hard.

Joel Manby:

Again, in our time on the podcast, we don’t have time to dig into it, but there’s methods and tools that I do talk about in Love Works do get into that a little bit. The third one is micromanaging, which is related to trust, right? Is a very close cousin, but let it let people do their job and let them make mistakes. Most mistakes, here’s a great question for your listeners that I was taught by Jack Herschend because I was struggling myself with micromanaging because you don’t want things to go wrong and you want there to be good results, right? He said, in every decision ask this question, what’s the worst thing that can happen and can I live with it? And most of the time you can live with it. Obviously, if it’s a decision that’s going to take the company down or take your debt so high you can’t pay it off or lose your number one customer, it’s maybe worth your involvement, but 90% of the decisions, the worst case is that there needs to be a correction or a marketing change, whatever. So that’s a really good question on micro-managing.

Lisa Zeeveld:

I just wrote it down, thank you. I like it.

Joel Manby:

The fourth one, I’m drawing a blank, oh yeah, lack of feedback. So lack of consistent feedback to people, it shouldn’t be an annual review. I think annual reviews are painful. It’s like so much build up on that one thing. Giving consistent reviews to a person, consistent feedback after a presentation, after task is done, after deadlines met or not met. Making sure they know exactly where they stand and having those difficult conversations I think is not done very well most often or not done at all. And the last mistake I’ve seen is related to the whole first part of our conversation, which is I call it all DO and no BE. We didn’t really use those terms, but DO goals are the financials, BE goals are what kind of leader do we want to be. And it’s usually tied to the values, like the seven values that are laid out in Love Works. Those were Herschend’s BE goals, and that’s what we held leaders accountable to. And again, back to our earlier conversation, that they should be equally weighted.

Joel Manby:

You should spend just as much time on your DO goals as you do the BE goals. And so those are five of the most common mistakes I see leaders make. There are many, many others, I think, but they tend to fall within those five categories.

Tricia Sciortino:

Subcategories. I love that. I love all five of those. So we like to consider ourself to be a very practical business podcast. And so if you were to summarize this awesome conversation and there’s somebody listening right now that there’s like one great step that they could take from this conversation to move themselves forward. What is the most practical thing you can tell them to do to really move in the way with which they’re prioritizing people over profit? What would that be?

Joel Manby:

That’s actually the toughest question of all, because I don’t think there are silver bullets in anything. But I would say go back to those three circles and think leadership is a balance and you can’t overextend on any one area. It’s customer results. It’s people engagement, our employee engagement and it’s our profit results. And thinking of the art of leadership is managing the balance between those three, that’s the biggest step, because it’s a philosophical thing in your head, all right, I’m going to approach work this way because I know it’s that important. And I know that that was a really breakthrough concept for me when Jack Herschend drew those circles on a piece of paper and it really meant a lot to me.

Joel Manby:

So hopefully that helps your listeners to take the step in the right direction. Because the reason I do this all the time is all your listeners who have that angst that we were talking about, if they have it, they now know, hey, I’ve heard a leader that’s gone through that and they’ve come to the other side, the right side of servant leadership. And I hope I’ve encouraged some of your listeners to do that. And that’s again, that’s why I wrote Love Works. That’s that’s why I spend my time doing it.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Wow, thank you, Joel. I don’t think I’ve ever written as many notes as I have during a podcast. I always go back and write them, but you have given us so much goodness today that I’ve been writing them all down and I can’t wait to read the book. So thank you so much for joining us today. Please do come back. I feel like we just need to continue the conversation. There’s so many more stories and you’ve just been a gift to Tricia and I, so thank you.

Joel Manby:

And I think we put a, for your listeners, a PDF of the five biggest mistakes. So that’s something maybe you can share with them as a helpful tool.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. We’ll give them how to access it. Absolutely. So thank you so much.

Joel Manby:

Thank you. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for your time and best of luck to both of you.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Thank you.

Tricia Sciortino:

Thanks for your time.

Joel Manby:

Absolutely.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Tricia. There’s like… I need to pause for a second.

Tricia Sciortino:

I love what you just said my name right there.

Lisa Zeeveld:

I mean, that was so good and I’m serious, we need to have Joel back. Although I don’t think just one more episode will do it,

Tricia Sciortino:

I feel like we could have a series.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. We can have a Joel series of podcasts.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yes. I wrote so many notes down. I’m going to get the book. I’m asking Kate, y’all know who she is, she’s my assistant. I’m getting the book. Wow. I just feel like I’m just processing it all right now. So I’m going to throw it over to you. What was your takeaway?

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. I also have like four post-it notes all sitting on my desk as I was feverishly taking notes while he was talking, which I never do.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. Never. So that’s how you know it was good stuff is when you’re taking notes while podcasting. Yeah. So I loved how he talks a lot about, he said guest, but guest or customer experience will never exceed the level of the enthusiasm of your team. Right? So your frontline, your team that is really serving your guest, your customer, your client. Their enthusiasm, their engagement will be the lid on your experience and that is such a profound way to look at client experience. We talk a lot about client experience at BELAY. We believe in it. We invest in it. We spend a lot of time. It’s part of what we believe in as a brand that we want to give an amazing experience. But I had never really heard it said that way before, and I absolutely fell in love with it. So that’s my takeaway amongst all the others, but yeah.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. And you’re going to get the book too?

Tricia Sciortino:

I’m so getting the book.

Lisa Zeeveld:

That should be everybody’s takeaway. Right? Go get the book.

Tricia Sciortino:

The book. Yeah. That is absolutely… Go buy this book. Yes.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So thank you for giving me time to process. I think I got my thoughts together here. When it comes to delegation, I feel like it’s one of those things that everybody struggles with as a leader. And I think that it’s because we’re responsible for so much. We want to make everything happen the way it’s supposed to. And undoubtedly, we’re good at our jobs. And so sometimes it’s hard to open up your hand. If y’all could see me, I’m opening up my hand right now, opening up your hand and saying like, I trust you to do this. And so for me, his question that he said, ask yourself when you go to delegate something, what is the worst that can happen? And can I live with that? Right? Okay. So maybe the marketing team makes a decision and you don’t really love it.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Can I just live with it? Maybe I would have changed it, but can I just kind of live with it? Right? Maybe you would have wanted the spreadsheet done differently. I’m in finance. Okay. But what can I live with it if it’s done a different way? As long as the outcome is what we all agreed for it to be, can I let that go? And I think that he said that was sort of that the RACI model, right? Those will be in the show notes too, but that was just really good. That’s a great question I think for all leaders to keep in mind who perhaps struggle with delegation, so.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. I love that.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. So like we said, guys, Joel already teed it up, but we have a download for you so that you can take your One Next Step. And today y’all, this is a big step. We know that you were taking a lot of notes too, please go download Joel’s guide, Five Leadership Mistakes to Avoid.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yes, guys. And to get the download, just text the phrase One Next Step to 3-1-9-9-6, or visit, onenextsteppodcast.com, and you’ll get access to the resource, to the download so that you can keep moving forward. Thanks for joining us today. Guys, come back next week for another great episode of the One Next Step.

Lisa Zeeveld:

That’s right. Start by making today count.

Tricia Sciortino:

Join us next week when we have a very own Director of marketing Amy Appleton interviewing Wes Gay a Storybrand guide on the power of the story and how to leverage it. Here’s a sneak peek into that interview.

Wes Gay:

Most businesses whether you’re a small start up in a local shop or a giant global brand, one of the biggest challenges is figuring out what do you say to people so they understand what you do, they know how to move forward and ultimately they can buy very quickly from you. That is I think one of the number one challenges in business.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for listening to One Next Step. Be sure to subscribe on Apple podcasts or follow us on Spotify. Then join us next time for more practical business tips and tools to help you get more done, grow your business and lead your team with confidence. For more episodes, show notes and helpful resources, visit onenextsteppodcast.com.

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