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Keep the Keepers: How to Develop Extraordinary Talent

Learn more about Dee Ann Turner and check out her top 25 questions to select extraordinary talent here! This valuable resource will help you find and develop the right people who will help your organization thrive.

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About This Episode

Business leaders say finding great people is one of their most common challenges. And even when they’re able to hire great people, leaders often don’t know how to keep and continue developing them.  

 

Joining us today to talk about this topic is Mrs. Dee Ann Turner. She spent 33 years at Chick-fil-A, Inc. as the Vice President of Talent. The company’s first female officer, she was instrumental in building and growing Chick-fil-A’s well-known culture and talent systems. She’s going to talk to us about how to keep and develop extraordinary talent and build an organizational culture that attracts world-class talent and consistently delights customers.

1.  To retain great talent, you have to have a great culture.

Be the “it” company that people talk about and want to work for. Sure, it’s always going to be about a paycheck but it’s also much more than that. People want to have a purpose and meaning behind the work they do everyday, especially younger generations of workers now. And, not only that, they want to have a lot of fun while they’re working! When those things are in place, it’s so much easier to retain quality talent. 

2. Remarkable culture is attainable remotely.

The idea that a company culture can be strong only when everyone is in the same building is a myth. Culture isn’t about proximity – it’s about purpose. Companies with a defined and well-articulated “why” – with employees who are on board with that why – will have a strong culture whether they are all in-house or remote. 

3. The best companies aren’t just about the product or the service – they realize they’re in the people business.

Make sure you have a clearly defined purpose that goes way beyond just what you do. What is your why and why does it matter to the people who interact with your brand? When your team understands that – as well as your clients and partners – then you are really in a great place to begin making a huge impact as a business. 

What are some of the most effective ways you’ve been able to find talent for your business?
What are some new ideas about finding talent you would like to try?
Do you have a company purpose that goes beyond just a product or service? If so, what is it? If not, how would you define it?
What are the strengths and weaknesses of your company culture?

People love to work for organizations that are about something bigger than themselves.

Dee Ann Turner

It's great to have a meaningful purpose, but you also have to have some results that come from that.

Dee Ann Turner

A remarkable culture has a meaningful purpose, a challenging mission and a set of core values that are demonstrated by everybody in the organization, particularly leadership.

Dee Ann Turner

You should always be recruiting.

Dee Ann Turner

(02:20) If you had the power of time travel, would you rather go back in time or to the future?

(04:14) 3 ways to keep extraordinary talent. 

(07:09) How has the importance of culture in the workplace evolved over the last few decades?

(09:36) How Chick-Fil-A developed their corporate purpose in 1983 after their first ever (and only) slump in sales. 

(14:06) It’s not just about providing a good meal or service. It’s about how people feel when they interact with your brand. 

(15:41) What are some practical ways that businesses and organizations are looking for and finding great talent?

(19:24) Ways leaders can help team members become extraordinary. 

(22:58) Tricia describes the BELAY buddies system they use to help team members get to know each other and build culture. 

(25:00) To retain great talent, you have to have a great culture. 

(26:02) The best companies are about more than the product or service. They’re in the people business. 

(27:11) This week’s one next step: Visit Dee Ann’s website and download her top 25 questions to select extraordinary talent. 

Dee Ann Turner:

My definition of remarkable culture. I think it’s attainable even when your social distancing in your remote situations, because I define it as number one, a remarkable culture has a meaningful purpose. Your big why you exist at all. And particularly Millennials and Gen Z’s right now are drawn to this idea of being a part of something that’s even bigger than themselves.

Speaker Two:

Welcome to One Next Step, the most practical business podcast in the world, helping you get more done, grow your business and lead your team with confidence, with tips and tools you didn’t get in business school. Here are your hosts, Tricia Sciortino and Lisa Zeeveld.

Tricia Sciortino:

Welcome to One Next Step. The practical business podcast that helps you run your business. So it stops running you, I’m Tricia.

Lisa Zeeveld:

And I’m LZ and today’s episode we’re focusing on a huge challenge for every leader, how to keep and develop extraordinary talent.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yes, and we are joined by an expert culture creator and talent developer, Mrs. Dee Ann Turner. She spent 33 years at Chick-fil-A as the vice president of talent and that as impressive. She was the company’s first female officer even more exciting. Yes, she was instrumental in building and growing Chick-fil-A’s well-known culture and talent system. She was responsible for thousands of selections of Chick-fil-A franchisees and corporate staff members.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. And now Dee Ann leads her own organization, Dee Ann Turner and associates, where she widely shares her wisdom through speaking, coaching and consulting. Now, let me tell you, right, T, I mean, she is amazing. I don’t even think that’s the right super wise. She has written three books and I truly do devour each and every one of them. And you’ll hear that on today’s podcast. So much wisdom. I can’t wait for you to listen in.

Tricia Sciortino:

Now, here is our interview with Dee Ann.

Tricia Sciortino:

Welcome to the podcast Dee Ann. We are thrilled you are with us today.

Dee Ann Turner:

Well, thank you so much. It’s my pleasure to be here. I’ve been really looking forward to this.

Tricia Sciortino:

So before we get started on all thing’s talent, which I can’t wait, I have a question for you. So here’s my icebreaker question for you. If you had the power of time travel, would you rather go back in time, maybe meet your ancestors, see some history in the making, or would you rather go to the future?

Dee Ann Turner:

Wow. Well, there’s no question. As much as I’d love to meet my ancestors, I just would love the opportunity to meet my children’s grandchildren, because I’d like to see how it all turned out.

Tricia Sciortino:

So you’re going to the future?

Lisa Zeeveld:

That’s really good. I never thought about it that way, but yeah. I mean, at some point we kind of run out of time to see the future. And so yeah, jumping ahead a couple of generations would be pretty awesome. Maybe by then there’ll be some redheads in my side. Okay.

Dee Ann Turner:

Well after that, after what those three boys put me through, I guess we’ll see how it all turns out.

Tricia Sciortino:

Return or not. My mom always told me, one day your kids will put their feet on your coffee table. You’ll see. And she was right.

Dee Ann Turner:

Or use your countertop as a cheese block. And with one of those Cleaver type things to cut through the apple.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah, totally. Yeah, Because there is some enjoyment out of watching them have a little misery once they see things on their own.

Tricia Sciortino:

Payback.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Payback that’s right. Well, one thing right now that I know a lot of organizations are struggling with is talent. It’s kind of a weird point in our history where there’s definitely a subsection of our culture of our society. I should say that is still looking for work, but there’s a lot of organizations who are having a hard time finding great talent and more importantly, keeping great talent because a lot of the things that used to be benefits, either a little carrot that would be dangled out such as remote work is now everybody’s starting to do that. So I just like to start us off today and say, how do you keep extraordinary talent?

Dee Ann Turner:

I think there are three things that talent is looking for today. First of all, they’re looking for a remarkable organizational culture. And you know, that’s, that’s really hard right now because we think of culture as being the things we do together as an organization. And so many people are not together. You know, the closest they’re getting is on a zoom call, just like we’re having right now. Hopefully that’ll change in the not too distant future, but that is one of the struggles right now. But you know, my definition of remarkable culture, I think it’s attainable even in when you’re social distancing in your remote situations, because I define it as, number one, it, a remarkable culture has a meaningful purpose, your big why you exist at all. And particularly Millennials and Gen Z’s right now are drawn to this idea of being a part of something that’s even bigger than themselves, this meaningful purpose.

Dee Ann Turner:

And then secondly, it has a challenging mission. Something everybody’s rallying around to accomplish are really big as we used to call them. “BHAG” big, hairy, audacious goal. And then lastly, a set of core values that are demonstrated by everybody in the organization, particularly leadership. That’s what I define as remarkable culture. So if you’re virtual, those are things you discuss, you can still talk about how your teammates living out those values. You can still recognize that you can still remind every time you sit down for your zoom meetings, Hey, remember, this is our purpose. This is where we’re aiming. This is our mission. This is where we are in our mission, here’s, here’s the measurement of where we are. So when they’re looking for a remarkable culture and as part of that, they’re looking to be part of something bigger than themselves. They’re not so interested.

Dee Ann Turner:

They want to make money, but they want a bigger purpose there. And they want to know that the organization that they work for has a bigger purpose than just that. And lastly, they want to be developed. They want opportunities to grow and they want you to help them do that. So if you want to attract great talent, those are the things you’re going to talk about and focus on whether you’re talking about that role on LinkedIn or you’re interviewing. And you’re trying to persuade that person to come to work for you. I think those are three of the most important things to focus on right now.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah, that’s great.

Tricia Sciortino:

Were they always the three? I mean, when someone you look back at your career, was it 33, some odd years ago, really long time ago when you started with Chick-fil-A right. All those years ago. Was that the focus? Did you, is it something that is evolved over time inside that organization and kind of what led to this really being the focus? I don’t know if it was 20, 30 years ago where people really understood that culture was a living, breathing thing and it mattered.

Dee Ann Turner:

So, first of all, you asked a few questions in there. One is, has it always been this way? And I’m going to talk really generally for a moment. Then we’ll dig into the question about my experience from Chick-fil-A. But generally I think, and I’ll explain why in a moment, I think culture has always mattered. People want to be whether you call it a healthy culture and engaging culture is I call it a remarkable culture. You want to be in that rather than a toxic culture. And in fact, 30, some odd years ago, whenever it was it’s, the needle keeps moving. It’s 35 and a half years ago that I went to work for Chick-fil-A. I’m not there anymore. But when I went to work there, that was a big reason as to why from a toxic culture to a remarkable culture. So I think that’s been universal.

Dee Ann Turner:

I think some other things change generationally. And so I talked about a meaningful purpose. I think people love to go to work for organizations with a meaningful purpose, and that are about something bigger than themselves. But I think if we go back 30, 40 years to when baby boomers, that was primarily, they were leading the workforce, they were, that was, are entering. You know, some of them were still entering the workforce at that time, they were looking for something different, they were looking for security and benefits and, and think, and their thinking was just a little bit different. And they knew that they were looking for longterm employment with the same employer, development they saw differently too. I mean, they saw it as a do it yourself world. And so while employee’s they really look for their employers to provide that, although I think that we can get into that, but I think they should work on that too, obviously.

Dee Ann Turner:

But in those days, a lot of development was done on your own. And so I think they were looking for, they were looking for security and they were looking for a place to stay for a long time. So some of those things have stayed the same. Some have changed, been different. Now you asked me specifically about Chick-fil-A actually when Truett opened his first restaurant in 1946, he was taking really good care of his people and really good care of his customers. And that was the basis that the culture was built on from there. They may not have had all the same words. In fact, Chick-fil-A’s corporate purpose wasn’t developed until 1983. You got time for that, that story real quick.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah, we do.

Dee Ann Turner:

Okay. So I’ll just tell you that story real quick. So it was 1982 and Chick-fil-A had something happened that night ever happened.

Dee Ann Turner:

Since Truett Cathy, the founder started his first restaurant in 1946. They had a slump and sales, 1982, there was a big recession and it was bad year. And so they had to start thinking about whether they were going to do about this situation. Not only did they have a slump in sales, but Truett. It had just finished this beautiful five story, corporate headquarters located on 76 acres, South of Atlanta. And so he took his executive team off for, for three days to discuss what they were going to do. Now we know what companies do and did at that time when they faced a slump in sales and they had a, they had a lot of debt, they had to cut budgets. They had to lay people off. So they went off to discuss these things halfway through the first day. One of those executives, actually it was Dan Cathy, the current CEO of Chick-fil-A.

Dee Ann Turner:

He said, wait a minute. Why are we in business at all? What’s our purpose for being? And so they spent the next two and a half days talking about what the purpose was. And they came away with this statement. That Chick-fil-A’s purpose is to glorify God by being a faithful steward of all that’s entrusted to us, to be a positive influence on all who come in contact with Chick-fil-A. They came back to the office, they shared it with the staff, the staff immediately bought into it so much so that the next Christmas they had that statement carved in bronze and put on a granite slab and installed it right next to the front door. That was true. It’s Christmas gift. And so that everyone who came through those doors, whether they were a Chick-fil-A staff member, they were a franchisee or a team member of that franchisee, customers, vendors, guests, whoever they were, they would know exactly the reason why they existed.

Dee Ann Turner:

Now, it’s great to have a meaningful purpose, but you also have to have some results that come from that. You know, it doesn’t do anything. Well, their results have been tremendous. Here we are in 2021. And even with all that’s happened, Chick-fil-A has never had a slump in sales since they never had a decrease in sales in any year, they have had for over 30 years retention rates of their staff and franchisees above 95%. And those franchisees enjoy one of the highest retention rates in the entire restaurant industry. They went debt free in 2012, and really impressive is in 2018, two full years ahead of their 2020 goals. They achieved $10 billion in sales. So knowing your purpose and by the way, one of the reasons I, when I talk to companies, I give lots of examples of other organizations now that I’m out on my own writing and speaking.

Dee Ann Turner:

But when I talk, when I give this example, I talk a lot about Chick-fil-A’s purpose because I have not been in another organization yet that I can walk in the door and I can just about ask anybody what’s the corporate purpose and they can quote it word for word. So, anyway, that’s just a little aside on that, but I think, I think that for Chick-fil-A that made all the difference for them. And, and again, the culture that’s where I got into this . Truett had it, by the way, he cared about his employees and his guests and over time, the description of it and the implementation methods evolved, but it was always there from the beginning.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. And what I love about the story real quick is that I think so often people feel like almost, that you have to have sort of like a true, like mission, almost like a, a non-profit or whether you’re a religious organization to really have a purpose. Right. So you’ve got, one somebody who’s listening right now who says, I’m running an auto mechanic shop and it’s like, how do I get my employees to, to have, feel the purpose behind it? And I love that if you break it down and Chick-fil-A was selling chicken sandwiches, but it went so much further than that, that nobody now we’ll just say you’re selling chicken sandwiches, right, that they are.

Lisa Zeeveld:

So I think it’s important for all of our listeners to understand that no matter what industry, and no matter what business you’re in, that you can have a purpose that will resonate with your talent will resonate with your employees and resonate with your partners and your customers. And that’s what will keep that extraordinary talent in where you’re at right now, but also attract them.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. And I like, you know, to your point also that it’s, it’s about how your organization makes people feel. It wasn’t about providing a good meal or, you know, it was really about how people feel about your brand and coming in contact with anybody inside your organizations.

Dee Ann Turner:

Well, and Truett Cathy said it best. He said, we’re not in the chicken business. We’re not in the restaurant business, we’re in the people business. And that can be said, when you’re repairing people’s cars or, you know, we could go down the list of, or you’re in the virtual assistant business, whatever you’re in that can certainly be said.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Exactly. Yeah.

Lisa Zeeveld:

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Lisa Zeeveld:

Well, we’ve just talked about how finding and retaining great talent was always a focus of Chick-fil-A. So, you know, let’s maybe do something that’s a little bit more practical. Cause we do like to say that we’re the most practical business podcast in the world, self-proclaimed here. So what are some ways that you are seeing today? You mentioned LinkedIn before, what are some real practical ways that you see organizations are looking and finding great talent, perhaps resources like LinkedIn or, or other channels? What would you suggest?

Dee Ann Turner:

So one of the things that I’m working on with a release of my new book crush your career is actually teaching talent, how to make those connections too. And so I like to say, you know, we’re talking, we’ve taught some about content from bet on talent. You were talking about that, which is my second book. And I like to say that bet on talent, teaches leaders, how to find and keep extraordinary talent and crush your career teaches talent, how to be extraordinary. So whether you’re on the job search side of this, or you’re looking for talent, I think these, these work, first of all, with the introduction of artificial intelligence and selection, especially in larger organizations that are using that, it’s a little bit less personal. So on both sides of that, you have to, you have to find ways to be more personal. You know, I have an affinity for LinkedIn.

Dee Ann Turner:

I think it’s a tremendous platform. The way the technology works, the way you can meet people, even the way that talent can reach out to potential employers. So for instance, I tell talent all the time. If you’re interested in an organization after you’ve done your research, start following the people in the organization that either work in the area that you want a job in or their HR people, but start following, read their articles and engage with them on LinkedIn. It’s a perfect way to stand out. And by the way, that’s not saying things like good stuff. I agree, but it’s really engaging in the conversation with your own point of view. And the same thing is true. Those types of tools are available for people who are looking for great talent, as well as being able to go in and call through those types of scenarios, and of course, the networking groups, I think that come out of it,

Dee Ann Turner:

you know, if you’re looking for an IT Professional, then hopefully, and I know many of these people who are in this business are there in the IT networking on LinkedIn or making sure things like your Glassdoor ratings, look at those things, see where you stand, how people were rating you. And if you see some gaps there that your organization’s not performing well in, then you need to address those, because candidates are going and looking at Glassdoor and indeed, and sites like that, monster.com. They’re looking at your organization just like you might go and look at their brand on LinkedIn or other social media. They’re going to look at your brand too. So you want to make sure you close those gaps as much as you can when you’re looking for talent. I think the important thing, one of the executives, when I was at Chick-fil-A, that did this the best is that he had a mindset that he was always recruiting.

Dee Ann Turner:

He was always recruiting. And so people who wait until they have a role open, it makes it a lot more difficult. Some of the best franchisees at this within Chick-fil-A, the reason they have great talent that you get that my pleasure service and all that second mile service that you receive is because those men and women are constantly recruiting. When they spot great talent, they engage them. They ask them if they’re interested in a job or, you know, I don’t have a job right now, but can we connect on LinkedIn? So when I do, I can give you a call or give me a call when you’re looking for a job, but they’re always recruiting. And they do that. When they’re asked to go and speak at colleges, or they’re asked to go and speak at the rotary club or whatever it is, they show up because that’s a recruiting. It’s not just marketing their business, their marketing, their employment opportunity too.

Tricia Sciortino:

That. I love that. Well, in your book, crush your career, you talk about a team becoming or team member becoming extraordinary, which I love. Is there something from that book that you could kind of share today that would help a leader help their team members become extraordinary?

Dee Ann Turner:

Yeah, I think there’s a few things. So I think first of all, right, from the bat, especially your young talent that’s coming in is to focus on teaching them how to develop relationships. Now you wouldn’t expect that you have to do that. Now they’re going to have to have a baseline to get in your door, right? But beyond that meaningful relationships that help grow their career because this is a generation of people, and COVID didn’t help any, but they’re behind screens all the time. They’re not used to being in person. So there’s some awkwardness about that. So as a leader, you want to help them build those relationships. So what’s something practical you can do. If you have a new team member who comes on board, then one of the things I suggest is you challenge them, give them a certain number of people that they’re going to have coffee with, or they’re going to have lunch with, get them to start with their immediate team and work out to other influencers in the organization.

Dee Ann Turner:

And if you need to, you know, help pave the way for that to happen for that person. I actually think good if they’re able to jump out on their own and do that. But if you need to help facilitate some of that happening, hopefully we won’t be in this completely virtual space. But then a lot of people will always just like you guys always have virtual roles. So how do you do that virtually? Well, you still can have a little coffee chat and it’s not all about business. It’s about getting to know one another. My son works for a technology company in Atlanta and they’re all virtual now. And they’re probably going to remain that way for a while. They have several locations they’re headquartered in San Francisco. And so they’re doing this, you know, everybody in the organization, they do a rotation of just meet up for coffee or meet up for lunch.

Dee Ann Turner:

So help them build meaningful relationships and teach them about the qualities that go into that. I mean, trustworthiness, things like that. I think the second thing is navigating landmines. You know, the things that you just didn’t see coming, I love Carey Nieuwhof’s book. I didn’t see it coming. Yeah. I mean, it’s just a super book. And, and, but that whole thing of the things that come and get you, that you just didn’t see coming, help them navigate through those and then teaching them to manage their performance is really important. A lot of people have no idea how to talk about their performance.

Dee Ann Turner:

They, they think their performance is where all the tasks they checked off their to-do list, but we know performance is really about results. So teach them how to talk about how to set goals around their role, hold them accountable for those goals, celebrate with them, but teach them to talk about their results. So when they end up, if they’re, if they’re in a virtual discussion with a leader influencer in the organization, or if they’re in person with a client, even that they’re able to, when somebody says, well, you know, what’s been going on, well, you know, what we’ve been able to achieve this year is X, Y, and Z. Our team has achieved this. The organization has achieved that. Get them thinking performance is about results.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. I love that, I know Tricia is over there going to, yes.

Tricia Sciortino:

We have a thing at Belay called belay buddies where we, we kind of connect people. We say, you know, okay, Susie and Johnny you’re buddies for the month. Now, whether you go have coffee or you meet on zoom, or you, you take it from there, but it’s something that we totally value at belay. Everything you’re saying is like making those interpersonal connections is so first of all, important for, to your point for the culture of the organization, for everybody to get outside their little team and meet people, but also to help them kind of build all that relational capital and Love it.

Dee Ann Turner:

Yeah. Love that.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. I mean, that’s one of the things that we’ve learned over 10 years, as virtual as possible, and virtual is fantastic, but there’s a lot of intentionality that goes by behind that and the relationship capital, I’m kind of going back to that purpose, especially for those Gen Z and Millennials, they want to have a deep connection. They don’t want to feel like they’re just punching a clock and leaving. And so the more that we can add fun and interpersonal relationships helps guarantee that they feel like they belong here and that we care about them because we do, we do care about them and they do belong.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Well, Dee Ann, this has been amazing. Thank you for sharing so much good stuff with us. I know we talked beforehand, but I’m always looking forward to each of your books coming out. So I can’t wait to read this next one. And thank you for spending this time with us today. It was awesome.

Dee Ann Turner:

It’s been completely my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you,

Lisa Zeeveld:

Dee Ann is so fabulous. Like I said, before we started recording, I have such a crush on her and it was so awesome that she agreed to be part of this podcast with us today.

Tricia Sciortino:

She’s so wise. She’s like loaded with so much wisdom.

Lisa Zeeveld:

I know. Yeah. We were actually trying to convince her to come back. So maybe, maybe we’ll have another episode, but while I’m still processing all of this, T what would you say your takeaway is?

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah, there were so many great nuggets. She is so wise when it comes to all thing’s talent for me, the biggest thing is which I was kind of, preach it and give him praise hands while she was talking was really about that to retain great talent, it’s imperative to have a great culture, to be the place that people want to come to work and to not undermine or undervalue that, that, yes, people work for a paycheck, but it’s way more than that. People want to have purpose and want to have a reason to show up for work and enjoy their work. We spent a lot of our hours in a given day working. So enjoying it is so important for, for mental health and peace of mind and all of those things. And we feel, really aligned with that at belay. But I just, I just love that that whole component of the retaining talent part is that people want to work for a place they actually really like working for.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah, No, that’s so good. And I think my takeaway really fits perfectly into that and that’s truly defining your purpose. And I think it’s really easy. Sometimes there’s so many different industries out there and so many different types of business and offer a product or they offer a service. And I think Chick-fil-A, and she talks about it does such a beautiful job of saying that they’re not, a quick service restaurant that they don’t just sell chicken sandwiches, but they’re what they’re in is the people business. And I think that every single organization out there, regardless of what you sell or what you provide is in the people business. And so maybe that’s not your purpose, but I think that clearly defining what your purpose is, can really help set your employees on the right path to know what you’re all about and why they show up every day.

Lisa Zeeveld:

And then the residual of that is in your clients know, while you’re in business and your partners know why you are in business, and then you create this really cool ecosystem around your organization, where everybody has the same purpose and understanding. And I think that’s when phenomenal growth happens.

Tricia Sciortino:

Absolutely.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Well, Hey guys, as always, we have a download for you and this week is really special. We want you to always take your one next step. And so Dee Ann has offered her top 25 questions to select extraordinary talent as your download this week, please visit her website deeannturner.com/about to get your copy today.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yes. And you can also text the phrase One Next Step to 31996 or visit the onenextsteppodcast.com and you’ll get access to today’s resources to help you keep moving forward. Thank you guys for joining us today. L Z. It was a pleasure. We will see you all next week for another episode of the one next step. Start by making today count.

Speaker Two:

Thanks for listening to One Next Step. Be sure to subscribe on Apple podcasts or follow us on Spotify, then join us next time for more practical business tips and tools to help you get more done, to grow your business and lead your team with confidence for more episodes, show notes and helpful resources. Visit onenextsteppodcast.com.

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