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About This Episode

This episode is all about the Enneagram and how to interact with all personality types at work. We’ll be joined by Ian Morgan Cron, a champion of the Enneagram, awakener of people, and bestselling author of the popular Enneagram book, The Road Back to You. 

 

As a pioneer in the contemporary Enneagram movement, Ian is a highly sought-after speaker for large conferences and corporate boardrooms alike. In this first of a two-part interview, Ian will share highlights of Enneagram numbers 1 through 5, what motivates them, and what it’s like to work with them.

 

Your One Next Step

 

Start leveraging your differences to make a difference in your organization. Download this week’s activation guide, “How to Lead and Work by Enneagram Type.” In this guide, Ian Morgan Cron gives an insightful look into how each of the nine Enneagram types naturally lead and work. Learn how to recognize each type and identify the value they bring to the table.

 

Download Now

 

In each episode, we highlight one next step for you and provide an activation or delegation guide to help you immediately take action, start applying what you learn, and get your team to help you.

1. A key predictor of success among leaders is self awareness.

What makes the Enneagram so valuable is the power it has in allowing you to become more aware of who you are. When you read your first test results, it might feel like the Enneagram has been reading your mail. Good leaders take that information and use it to better understand themselves and how they relate to others. 

2.  The Enneagram reveals what’s best about you is what’s worst about you and what’s worst about you is what’s best about you.

Any personality test that makes you more self aware is a good thing. However, the Enneagram truly gives you a 360 view of yourself. It reveals how you act at your most healthy, and it shines a light on the shadow aspects of your personality that reveal themselves when things aren’t going as well. 

3. The moment you think your way of seeing the world is normal, it means that everybody else that you encounter who has a different view is abnormal.

The Enneagram shows there are 9 “normal” ways of viewing the world. Good leaders understand that their point of view isn’t the same as someone else’s – and that’s okay. Unhealthy leaders believe that other person’s point of view is wrong, so they feel justified in judging them – and might even weaponize their Enneagram type, using it against them. 

Have you taken the Enneagram? If not, go do it now! What’s your type?
What was it like reading your results for the first time? 
How would you describe yourself and your type when healthy and unhealthy?
Are there differences in your personality at work versus when you are at home?

The Enneagram reveals that what's best about you is what's worst about you, and what's worst about you is what's best about you.

Ian Morgan Cron

The biggest mistake leaders can make is to presume that everybody sees the world the way that they do.

Ian Morgan Cron

Encouraging self-awareness, allows people to observe the way that they're acting, thinking, and feeling in real time.

Ian Morgan Cron

The key predictor of success among leaders is self-awareness.

Ian Morgan Cron

(02:50) Ian Morgan Cron explains the basics of the Enneagram and what it is. 

(04:08) What are the names and types of numbers 1 through 5 that we’ll talk about in this episode?

(05:26) How does the Enneagram show up in the workplace?

(07:26) The key predictor of success among leaders is self-awareness. 

(10:21) Ian gives a short description of types 1 through 5.

(13:36) The Enneagram reveals what’s best about you is what’s worst about you and what’s worst about you is what’s best about you. 

(14:30) Have you found when coaching other leaders that they might judge someone else based on that person’s Enneagram type?

(18:11) How can leaders encourage and motivate each type in an office setting?

(21:05) The moment you think your way of seeing the world is normal, it means that everybody else that you encounter who has a different view is abnormal – and as a result you feel justified in judging them. 

(23:50) How to motivate a 2. 

(25:03) Nobody gets more done, and done faster, in an organization than a 3. 

(26:32) Motivating a 4 involves regularly recognizing their unique contribution to the organization.

(28:35) If you really want to reward a 5 give them more autonomy. Give them a job and leave them alone. 

(30:27 This episode’s one next step: Download this week’s activation guide, “How to Lead and Work by Enneagram Type.” This guide by Ian Morgan Cron gives an insightful look to how each of the nine Enneagram types naturally lead and work. It will not only help you recognize someone else’s type, but it will help you see the value of their type.

Ian Cron:

I’m in favor of any system that helps people grow in self-awareness. One of the things that makes the Enneagram so interesting is it reveals that what’s best about you is what’s worst about you and what’s worst about you is what’s best about you.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Totally.

 

Speaker 3:

Welcome to One Next Step. The most practical business podcast in the world, helping you get more done, grow your business, and lead your team with confidence, with tips and tools you didn’t get in business school. Here are your hosts, Tricia Sciortino and Lisa Zeeveld.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Welcome to one next step. The practical business podcast that helps you run your business and make it stop running you so you can enjoy your work and your life. I’m Tricia Sciortino the CEO of BELAY.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Hey guys, I’m, Lisa’s Zeeveld. The COO of BELAY together we are T and LZ. We’ve known each other since 2005, and have worked together for a decade growing a 100% remote business from startup to being recognized on the Inc 5,000 fastest growing companies list for six years running.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

LZ And I have learned a lot along the way, and I’ve made some great friends for One Next Step. We are inviting them on the podcast to bring you episodes filled with excellent content delivered by some talented people. We’re excited today to talk to you about the Enneagram and how to interact with all personality types at work.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

We’ll be joined by Ian Cron, the one and only I’m so excited. He will share, highlights of Enneagram’s numbers, one through five, what motivates them and what it’s like to work with them.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah, I’ll never forget. When I first was introduced to the Enneagram, Jen Hatmaker had posted something on Instagram about how she had taken the Enneagram test. And I was like, “I need to do it.” And remember T we were heading up to the Highlands in North Carolina and we spent like hours talking about everybody’s results.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

I remember, yes.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

It was absolutely fabulous. Well, our guest, Ian Cron knows about personality types inside and out. He’s an Enneagram expert, a trained psychotherapist and a priest. He understands relationships, what motivates people and the why behind what people do and how they think.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Wow, I am so excited, he’s with us. What an incredible mind we have with us today. In addition to that, he speaks at conferences and corporations and hosts workshops to help leaders improve their teams. He wrote the best-selling book, The Road Back to You. We have a two-part interview focused on all nine types. Here’s part one of our interview with Ian Cron.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Welcome Ian, welcome to the podcast today.

 

Ian Cron:

I’m delighted to be here. Thank you.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yes. Thank you for joining us. So just to let our listeners get acclimated to what we’re going to be talking about today, could you tell us about the Enneagram?

 

Ian Cron:

Yes. I certainly can. The Enneagram is an ancient personality typing system that teaches, there are nine basic personality types in the world. One of which we gravitate toward and adopt in childhood as a way to feel safe in the world and to navigate new relationships.

 

Ian Cron:

And very importantly, the Enneagram teaches that each of these types has an unconscious motivation, that powerfully influences how that particular type acts, thinks and feels on a predictable and habitual basis from day to day.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Wow. That’s a powerful, very long statement you just made.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

I know. I know. And all I’m thinking of is “Ian, I wonder if he already can tell what our numbers are?”

 

Tricia Sciortino:

We’ll see if by the end of this, you can guess what number Lisa is and what number I am okay? He’s sizing us up right now.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

I know, he totally is.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Fascinating. So there’s nine types. This first episode, we’re going to talk about the first five, type one through five. Will you just first just start off by telling us what are the names and types one through five that we’ll cover today?

 

Ian Cron:

Sure. Type ones are called the improvers. They used to be called the perfectionists.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Oh, you got a name change.

 

Ian Cron:

Oh, I like that. Oh I just gave it away.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

You just gave it away.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

I just gave it away, I’m a one, Ian I’m a one.

 

Ian Cron:

So most ones are so happy about the name change.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Yes.

 

Ian Cron:

It’s ridiculous. If I had a nickel for every one that almost cried and said, “thank you,” I’d be Jeff Bezos.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

I’m one of those people. Thank you. I’m an improver, I love it.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Improver very nice, okay.

 

Ian Cron:

Yes. Two twos are called the helpers. Another name for them that I’ve started using is the befrienders because they’re the most interpersonal number on the Enneagram. No one can make friends faster than a two. Threes are called the achievers or the performers. Fours are called the individualists and fives are called the investigators or the observers, one or the other.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Maybe it’s better T that we’re actually going to talk through like my personality, like right? It actually is going to work out where there’s going to be a lot more on this side. And then you on episode two. So very, very cool.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

I know.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Ian, how do these play into how we show up in the workplace?

 

Ian Cron:

Well, I mean, most of my time is working with corporations, senior management teams, and sometimes with an entire company. I’ve talked to companies with 700, 800 people at a time in one room and it really does revolutionize the workplace because one of the things that it highlights is that all of us show up for the world in very, very different ways.

 

Ian Cron:

The way that we show up, the way that we process situations, the way that we process the world, they are very, very different. And once you know that, like for example, I always tell leaders one of the biggest mistakes they can make is to presume that everybody sees the world the way that they do. And if the Enneagram is right, there are nine normal ways of seeing the world, right? Not just your way is normal, there are nine normals out there.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

That can’t be right.

 

Ian Cron:

They can be hard.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

She’s an eight Ian, she’s an eight.

 

Ian Cron:

Yes.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Are we sure?

 

Ian Cron:

Actually you eights and ones would have a hard time believing that there is another way of seeing the world.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Well you should hear some of the conversations that LZ and I have, they’re pretty strong conversations.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

I’m a one, two so a lot there, a lot there, that’s awesome.

 

Ian Cron:

So once you are familiar with all nine types and your own type, one of the beautiful things it does, is it very quickly, and even, I would say algorithmically improves your self-awareness. And in the corporate space, as research has shown, and I mean, leaders get mad when I say it sometimes because they’re looking for hardcore bottom line answers, and I keep telling them the answer is about soft skills. The key predictor, this is from a Cornell University study. The key predictor of success among leaders is self-awareness.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

I believe it.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

I believe it.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

 

Ian Cron:

And the Enneagram is the finest tool, I know, and I’ve looked at and worked with a lot is the finest tool, I know for helping people in a quick and efficient way to expand and cultivate their self-awareness. And it’s always so exciting to see what happens inside of organizations and teams and senior management groups, when they have become familiar with the Enneagram and it’s really wonderful.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Well, it a gives us some vernacular. I mean, I think that was one of the great things that when I took my first Enneagram test, was it gave me words to my feelings and it really helped me explain myself to others. Like why this is important to me is because this is a part of who I am.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

And so I think that, that really opened up the dialogue, as Tricia was joking before, even just between me and her and her and our other leaders, how we view the world is sometimes very differently. But now we have the terminology and the vernacular to describe why we feel that way.

 

Ian Cron:

Yes. In fact, I worked for a Fortune 500 company. I did a day long workshop with their whole division. So it was a couple hundred people. And maybe six months later, the head of HR asked me to come in and just to do a followup. So I arrived at their offices in downtown Manhattan, went to their floor and I’m trying to find her office.

 

Ian Cron:

I’m looking at the suites, all the different offices and the numbers on the doors don’t make any sense. And I’m like, “Where’s her office, I can’t figure out where it is.” Well, she came down and finally figured out that I was lost, she came down the hallway and I said, “What’s up with the numbering of your suites?” She goes, “Oh, those aren’t the suite numbers. Those are their Enneagram numbers.”

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Wow.

 

Ian Cron:

She said, “After your workshop, we decided that we would all put…” in these, really nice sort of metal brass letters on the door, numbers on their door. So that when people walked into another person’s office, like, okay, what an eight walked into a one’s office, they knew enough now that that eight could bake into his or her calculations.

 

Ian Cron:

Okay, “Who am I about to have a conversation with, what are the dos? What are the don’ts, what would remove the inefficiencies in this communication?” Right? And I’ll tell you, it just make such a difference. People in the workplace, one of the reasons people leave all the time is they feel like people don’t see or understand them nor that their leaders don’t fully appreciate what they bring to the table. And a lot of times leaders don’t because they don’t know about the inner workings of that person’s personality, right?

 

Ian Cron:

And one of the things I didn’t do when I went through those type names is maybe just sort of give a one sentence description of the type. Would that be helpful?

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

I was just going to say, I’d love to run through, kind of the first one through five. It’s perfect that you’re going to talk about one because we just talked about, we’re going to walk into one’s office. We’re going to walk into a one’s office. So what do we need to know about a one?

 

Ian Cron:

Well, ones are meticulous, they are hardworking. They are very, very reliable and they’re unconscious motivation. What is it that is driving a one is a need to perfect themselves, others and the world, okay?

 

Ian Cron:

Twos, the helpers, warm, caring, giving, supportive interpersonal off the charts. They’re motivated by a need to be needed and loved and approved of.

 

Ian Cron:

Threes, the achievers and the performers they are success oriented image conscious, and they are wired for productivity very ambitious. They are motivated by a need to succeed, to appear successful and to avoid failure at all, costs.

 

Ian Cron:

Fours the individualists creative, sensitive, temperamental at times they’re motivated by a need to be unique and special to compensate for what they perceive is a missing piece or a fatal flaw in their essential makeup. They’re a complicated number disproportionally represented in the creative arts. Fives…

 

Ian Cron:

They are I’m a four. So be careful about laughing.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Oops.

 

Ian Cron:

Fives are called the investigators, analytical the most analytical number on the Enneagram. Very private, the most emotionally distant number on the Enneagram. They’re motivated by a need to collect knowledge and information, particularly about niche subjects to conserve energy, to fend off what they perceive is a lack of inner resources to meet the demands of the world, particularly in the relational sphere.

 

Ian Cron:

So there’s probably examples from the corporate world for all of those people. I could probably offer some guesses, but we’ll see if we get there in this conversation.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

That’s awesome. Yeah. I was sitting here just with our own team and my own family members going, “Yeah, I know who that number is. Yeah, I know who that number is.” You know, it’s very fascinating because I think that everybody I’ve known who’s taken the Enneagram test once they hear their number, that they somewhat feel validated. It’s not a shock, right? Wouldn’t you say Tricia?

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Oh yeah. It’s almost affirming, like that is who I am, that makes sense. Yeah.

 

Ian Cron:

You know, it’s interesting though, at the same time, when you really read a description of each of the types, yes, it’s validating, but at first it’s usually a little uncomfortable and for some people, the exposure, they’re a little horrified by their type. You know what I mean? Because one of the things, the Enneagram does, and this is why I prefer it over DISC and Myers-Briggs, StrengthsFinder, all of which I like, I mean, I’m in favor of any system that helps people grow in self-awareness.

 

Ian Cron:

But one of the things that makes the Enneagram so interesting is it reveals that what’s best about you is what’s worst about you and what’s worst about you is what’s best about you. It reveals the kind of the shadow side of your personality in addition to what’s best about it. So you get a real, three-sixty a very honest assessment.

 

Ian Cron:

When I first read my type, I was like, I wanted to crawl under my bed because it felt to me like someone was reading my mail and I was like, “How did you know that about…” I’ve never talked about my interior world like that to anybody nor actually did I even have the language that the Enneagram has to describe it. It really is, it’s uncannily accurate.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Well, and I think that actually, kind of begs the question too. Have you seen, especially in a business corporate environment, when people hear about other people’s Enneagram types, is there any negative tone to that? You know, they start to judge somebody by those characteristics, like easily, like you said, I’m happy that the title for one has been changed because I’ve seen people go, “Well, she’s the perfectionist, she’s the one that’s not going to be happy with anything.”

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

So do you find that when you’re coaching leaders that you have to manage around that?

 

Ian Cron:

When I’m doing day-long workshops, I spend probably 30 minutes talking about Enneagram ethics, because you know, like anything in life, you can weaponize the Enneagram and use the information you have about other types and even your own type against them.

 

Ian Cron:

So for example, when I hear somebody say, like you said, “Oh my gosh, she’s such a six,” or “She’s such a seven,” that’s insulting and dismissive, right? And, I’m always like, “That’s a no go if you’re going to use the Enneagram. That’s, that’s a non-starter.”

 

Ian Cron:

Sometimes I’ll hear people say, “Well, I’m just an eight get used to it.” And I’m like, “Actually, no part of the reason for knowing the Enneagram is so that you can begin to work on the shadow side of your type and you can take responsibility for those dimensions of your personality that are running riot and need to be, brought to heal,” right?

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Right. To be the healthiest version of your number, right? Like the health of like as someone who’s been casually practicing and understanding who I am as an Enneagram eight, since we’re talking about it, is that I’m trying to be the healthiest eight I can because healthy aides show up like XYZ, but unhealthy eights up this other way. And so I’m always kind of looking at myself and my health on the scale of how my numbers shows up.

 

Ian Cron:

Yeah. And so the way that you could actually maybe even say that a different terminology would be, instead of using the word health, you can say self-aware. If you were talking about unhealthy, you would talk about lacking self-awareness right or a little self-awareness or in the middle average self-awareness right?

 

Ian Cron:

And what we want to do is constantly be upping people’s self-awareness so that as they go through the day, they have the ability to observe the way that they’re acting, thinking, and feeling in a real time. And also then self regulating, as they’re moving through the day to prevent the shadow side of their type, the very unconscious side of their type from taking over and getting them in trouble, right? Getting them in trouble.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

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Lisa Zeeveld:

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Lisa Zeeveld:

So how can leaders encourage, or maybe a better word is motivate each type in an office?

 

Ian Cron:

Sure. Well, let’s take ones, for example, ones are called as I mentioned earlier, the improvers. What I would say about them and they’re wonderful human beings, every type by the way is fantastic, when it’s healthy to the degree that it’s self-aware, they are remarkable human beings, right?

 

Ian Cron:

You know, with a one you really can motivate them by going to them with anything that needs improving. Honestly, they can improve anything. If it looks perfect, take it to a one, they will know how to make it even better. You can leverage their remarkable talent for spotting mistakes.

 

Ian Cron:

Have you ever been with a one and you’ve been with a one where they go into a restaurant they noticed that one of the words is misspelled on the menu. I mean, that, I wouldn’t even see, their attention immediately goes toward what’s wrong. Is there a disorder? And if there is, how can I order it?

 

Ian Cron:

Does that make sense? It’s like their attention immediately rivets itself, mistakes in the environment. They really value clarity. I would explain exactly how you want a job done and then give them deadlines. Like a couple of other numbers, one’s like predictability. They don’t like you to change plans too quickly, unless you can present a reason that makes sense to them right?

 

Ian Cron:

Like they don’t like people changing the rules without there being any rational reason for it. They don’t like people just, being off the cuff, right? They’re incredibly ethical. So you really want to make sure that you’re not cutting corners around a one, that you’re following a process that you have an agreed upon system and you don’t depart from the system. You stick with it and at all… So Lisa, does that sound like you at all?

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

I’ll let Tricia answer.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah, we’re totally talking about her. It reminds me of a story and I’m like a two down a rabbit trail, but like Lisa and I were in a hotel and we were sharing a suite with that two bedrooms and we were in the suite and we immediately walk on the room and she’s completely sizing up the room and we are there three minutes and she’s like, “No, this room will not do.”

 

Tricia Sciortino:

And we went back down to the lobby and spoke to the desk and we got a different room because that room was not tidy enough. It wasn’t clean enough. There were scuffs on the… and I was like, okay. And now me, I was like, “I don’t know, room looks fine to me.”

 

Ian Cron:

Exactly, so do you see how through a leader how valuable this information is?

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah.

 

Ian Cron:

And do you see what a mistake, it would be for a leader to think that their way of seeing the world was normal and the only way to see the world and that, because the moment you think your way of seeing the world is normal, it means that everybody else you encounter, who has a different view, therefore is abnormal. And you feel justified in judging them.

 

Ian Cron:

So you as an eight, if you know what a one is like as a leader, then you would say to yourself, “This person’s way of the world. I don’t have it, but I need it. I need someone.” Like you want your neurosurgeon to be a one. You know, I want my book editor to be a one.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Or your CFO, your CFO, you want your CFO to be a one, you know every penny.

 

Ian Cron:

Or a six, I can get to that in a little bit.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah, true.

 

Ian Cron:

But every time I get on an airplane, I’d want to tap the door of the pilot’s cabin and just say a little prayer, like, okay, “Lord, please make him a one, make her a one.” You know what I’m saying? Because I don’t need a four behind the wheel of an airplane. Do you know what I’m saying?

 

Ian Cron:

You know, thinking about all these creative things, it’s like, not that a four couldn’t do it. I’m just saying that way of seeing the world is necessary in an organization.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah.

 

Ian Cron:

You want to talk about twos?

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Let’s do it.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

We’ve have a lot of two in our organization. So this will be good for our team.

 

Ian Cron:

I would bet you do. So well, I’ll tell you, this twos are wonderful HR people. And so they really do understand where to place people. And they are brilliant at attracting talent because they’re so relational, they can convince anybody that BELAY or IBM or Apple is the best company in the world to work for. “And would you please come work for us?”

 

Ian Cron:

You know, because twos, threes and fours are the most image conscious numbers on the Enneagram. So they actually know how to project an image of the company that is so attractive, that it gets great talent in the door. And those relationship skills even make it easier right?

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Well, it’s good, we have a lot then here, at a staffing company were loaded with twos.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

 

Ian Cron:

Absolutely. You know, I once worked with a company, it was a hedge fund in Manhattan. And I remember walking in the door right away, because you could feel a culture, right? I mean, the moment you walk in, you can feel the culture it’s in the furniture. You know what I mean?

 

Ian Cron:

And I walked in the door and I thought, this is a three, eight company. This is all threes and eights. And I was right after I’ve worked with the management team for a while. And finally, one day I said to him, “Who’s answering the phones around here. Who’s at the front desk. Who’s dealing with people?”

 

Ian Cron:

And, and I’m like, “You have no two’s in here, who’s at the desk, warmly greeting people.” I’m like, “I don’t know if that’s important to you, but you, you have to ask yourself the question, what does it cost us not to have it two in this organization?”

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Right, yes.

 

Ian Cron:

So motivating a two, I would say that for twos, you cannot say, I appreciate you and your work enough, you just can’t. It’s like they crave approval and words of affirmation. To give you an example. The Mary Kay company, that’s a classic two company, “Okay, start with a compliment, then a constructive criticism, end with a compliment.” You know what I’m saying? Like an affirmation it’s like, that is pure two strategy.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yes.

 

Ian Cron:

So another way, if you really want to motivate a two, you got to make sure that they are in a high traffic area in the office. They have to be around people all the time.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right.

 

Ian Cron:

And so the more interpersonal you can make the job, the more they’re in touch with people during the course of a day, the better off they are, the more energized they are. You do not want to put them in a basement office, away from other people, they’ll die.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah, right.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Don’t lock them up, good.

 

Ian Cron:

So check this out, you could put a five in the basement and they could not be more happy. You see that?

 

Tricia Sciortino:

They’d probably prefer it right.

 

Ian Cron:

And once you know this, it’s like, you make different decisions as a leader. All right, threes, oh boy, okay so with threes, nobody gets more done in an organization than a three and nobody gets it done faster. These are people who’ve memorized David Allen’s book, getting things done right?

 

Ian Cron:

They make phenomenal salespeople, right? They are driven task oriented. They love to do lists, they live for to-do lists right? They love to crank through them. They have a gift for seeing opportunities on the horizon before anybody else does. And the quickest path to realizing the opportunity, more than any other number.

 

Ian Cron:

To motivate a three, you have to have rewards, promotions, incentives at the end of the day. Like, okay, “So if you sell this much, this is what you’re going to get. This is the promotion you’re going to get. This is the bonus you’re going to get.” Because they chase that stuff right?

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Right.

 

Ian Cron:

When a three doesn’t have any goals, professional goals, they get depressed, they feel lost, they become dissatisfied, irritable. I mean, they need something all the time. Some achievement that they can realize as a result of their work. And also because they’re going to compete against everybody else for it.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. Our, VP of revenue who leads our sales team is a three. And you’re talking about her right there, it’s right.

 

Ian Cron:

There it is, there it is.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

So intensely.

 

Ian Cron:

Yeah. Now when you’re dealing with fours, I would say motivating a four involves regularly recognizing their unique contribution to the corporate setting to the corporate world. So in other words, fours are intensely creative people. These are people who make… let me give you a company because most people can’t believe there are fours in the corporate world. And there’s not a ton.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

I feel like our marketing team might have some.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

 

Ian Cron:

Totally, they would be great. You know, designers like, like Tiffany’s would be a four company. Maybe Ritz Carlton would be a four company just because nobody has a better sense of aesthetics than a four, nobody. Let me give you an example of this. I worked for a gigantic American corporation. I wish I could tell you what company it was, but it’s absolutely gigantic.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Okay.

 

Ian Cron:

Like, I’m talking about millions of employees. I’m not talking about hundreds of thousands right?

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Wow okay.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Okay.

 

Ian Cron:

I went to their corporate headquarters and everything was the color of khaki. And I can’t even begin to tell you how big this building, the set of buildings was, I was like” “Why is everything tan?” Everything.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yes.

 

Ian Cron:

And the four in me was going, “How could these people possibly be motivated by a building that seems to hate color?” You know what I mean? And I was like, “This is a depressing environment.” I actually pressed on them about it, like, “This is not a great environment for people to work in.”

 

Ian Cron:

Okay, so with fours, they just need a lot of affirmation. Now if a four makes a suggestion and you disagree with it, they don’t mind, they’ll take that as long as you say to them. “But in spite of the fact that we’re not following your suggestion, I want you to know, I appreciate the unique contribution that you make to this organization.”

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

 

Ian Cron:

Right? Otherwise they’ll, spin out on you. Let’s end with fives, to motivate a five, I’m always like, don’t worry so much about giving them a cash bonus. If you really want to reward a five, give them more autonomy, tell them they can work from home, tell them you’re going to give them an office far away from the flow of traffic, where people are going to be constantly stopping at their desk and wanting to talk and ask questions.

 

Ian Cron:

It’s not like fives aren’t social. It’s just that they thrive in an atmosphere of privacy and quiet and give them a job and leave them alone. You know what I’m saying? And, so like, I’m always telling twos, for example, they’re very tactile, they get real close on people physically. I know having worked with a lot of fives, I’ve worked with a company where they had 500 coders and I said, “Well, I guarantee you at least 50% are fives.” Right?

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Right. And they’re not hugging each other, nobody’s hugging.

 

Ian Cron:

No. And I told the guy that was in charge of them who was an eight, I said, “All right, let me just tell you something, your energy is intense and you’re going to overwhelm these fives. So what I want you to is I want you to stand at least 12 inches further away from them than you normally would another type.”

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Interesting.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

 

Ian Cron:

Just because the energy around them, they need that space right? So I tell twos, you can’t rush in and go hug a bunch of fives. They will stand there with their arms at their side, like looking like their eyes get real big, they’ll start blinking, like, “This is too much.”

 

Ian Cron:

Again, this is just the little things and I talking a little bit, in generalities here, everybody’s different, but these little things, man, they make a gigantic difference in the workplace.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Wow. That is a lot, we’ve talked about a lot in just the Enneagrams one through five, but hey guys, it is time for the One Next Step. As the most practical business podcasts, we want to make sure taking action is easy. So with each episode, we’re going to offer you One Next Step to propel you forward. Today’s next step is to download Ian Morgan Cron guide, how to lead and work by Enneagram type.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

In this resource, Ian gives an insightful look to how each of the nine Enneagram types naturally lead and work. It will not only help you recognize someone else’s type, but it will help you see the value of their type. Be sure to download the guide so you can leverage people’s differences to make a difference in your organization.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

I can’t wait. It’s going to be such great information. To download it now, text the phrase One Next Step to 31996 or visit onenextsteppodcast.com. When you request today’s guide, you’ll also receive a summary of today’s episode, which includes key quotes, takeaways and links to resources mentioned in the episode.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of One Next Step. We hope you’ve enjoyed what you’re hearing from us. And now we want to hear from you, head on over to Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen and leave us a review. We’ve created this podcast to help you lead your team and grow your business.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Until next time, own your journey. It’s your life and your business. It’s up to you to create the life and organization you want. Join us next week for more practical tips and actionable tools to advance your business, one step at a time.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Start by making today count.

 

Speaker 3:

Thanks for listening to One Next Step. Be sure to subscribe on Apple podcasts or follow us on Spotify, then join us next time for more practical business tips and tools to help you get more done, grow your business and lead your team with confidence for more episodes, show notes and helpful resources visit onenextsteppodcast.com.

Start leveraging your differences to make a difference in your organization. Download this week’s activation guide, “How to Lead and Work by Enneagram Type.” In this guide, Ian Morgan Cron gives an insightful look into how each of the nine Enneagram types naturally lead and work. Learn how to recognize each type and identify the value they bring to the table.

 

 

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Thank you for listening to One Next Step.

Next week we’ll continue our conversation with Ian Morgan Cron. This time we’ll focus on Enneagram numbers 6 through 9 and talk about what motivates them, what it’s like to work with them, and how leaders can leverage their differences to make a better organization.