Skip to main content
Reading Time: 26 minutes

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Google Podcasts

Stitcher

About This Episode

Scaling sales teams is a challenge. So many products or companies fail because teams didn’t figure out a few key ingredients. Today Scott Leese joins us to talk about just that. When it comes to sales, Scott Leese is the man. Not only is he an author, and we will talk about his book Addicted to the Process, but he is the founder of both Scott Leese Consulting and The Surf and Sales Summit. 

 

He joins us today to talk about building a successful sales team while leading it as a small business owner, giving all of us the best tips to find the right sales people who can grow your team and eventually your business. 

 

Your One Next Step

Download our activation guide, “Scott Leese on Sales,” which is a curated list of Scott’s best articles on sales strategy, process, people, infrastructure and more. We knew there would be no way we could learn everything Scott has to teach us about sales on one podcast, so we rounded some of his best stuff so you continue going deeper. We believe this will help you develop processes for building and leading your own team as a small business.

 

Download Now

 

In each episode, we highlight one next step for you and provide an activation or delegation guide to help you immediately take action, start applying what you learn, and get your team to help you.

1. People don’t care about what you do. They care about how you can help them.

The old sales pitch of “My name is Scott and I’m the owner of Scott Leese Consulting” just doesn’t work anymore. What are the end benefits of what a consultant offers? Lead with that! Address their potential concerns right from the beginning, then end with how what you do can meet their needs. 

2. If you’re not a salesperson, don’t try to be a salesperson.

Too many small business owners get started out and they try to do everything on their own. Chances are, a software engineer might not be the best at sales. That’s okay. If you’re trying to do something you’re not naturally inclined to do, you’re going to have a hard time getting your business off the ground. Be willing to ask for help. 

3. Codify your sales process.

 In other words, put everything down on paper. List the whole process from A to Z, making it very clear as to how your organization does sales. That way, your process can be taught to others and easily replicated. That’s just another way of taking one important thing off your shoulders. And if you’re not naturally inclined to sales, work with your lead salesperson to get this process off the ground. You and your business can only benefit from this in the long run. 

What is your current sales process? What are the strengths and weaknesses? What could be missing?
Thinking back to this week’s podcast – What is the value in hiring someone who is coachable and curious versus someone who doesn’t need as much coaching?
Has your view of sales changed since you started your business? What have you learned, and what are some possible misconceptions you had before you started?
What are the pros and cons of a sales leaderboard in your opinion?

Your future success is only as strong as your succession plan.

Scott Leese

Data may be king, but it's not God.

Scott Leese

You can't scale unless you get what's working onto paper.

Scott Leese

As a leader, you need to understand a 360-degree view of the person and circumstances, and then coach to those particular things.

Scott Leese

(02:54) Scott shares about his experience running with bulls in Pamplona, Spain.

(05:10) Scott discusses his goal of bringing businesses from 0 to 25 million in ARR. 

(6:40) What are the steps that Scott goes through with his clients in this process?

(09:35) What is broken in the traditional sales process?

(11:48) Why are there so many great ideas and products out there that don’t make it, and how does sales factor into that?

(17:17) Sales leaderboards are outdated and narrow minded. 

(20:37) Working through the difficulties of leading at scale. 

(21:26) Is there a certain “it” factor when you are hiring for sales – maybe someone who you think doesn’t need as much coaching?

(24:08) Scott talks about one of the things in his sales career that he’s not proud of. 

(28:03) Metrics are king, but they are not God. 

(29:04) The value in finding someone who is coachable and curious. 

(30:51)  Download our activation guide, “Scott Leese on Sales,” which is a curated list of Scott’s best articles on sales strategy, process, people, infrastructure and more. 

Scott Leese:

You have to offer employees and your sellers more. And it can’t just be about the revenue number. We’ve siloed off so many different parts of the sales function, and we’ve over-metricked everything. And I’ve often said, “Data may be king, but it’s not a God.” We can’t let the data just rule us entirely. We’re dealing with human beings, still.

 

Speaker 2:

Welcome to One Next Step, the most practical business podcast in the world, helping you get more done, grow your business, and lead your team with competence, with tips and tools you didn’t get in business school. Here are your hosts, Tricia Sciortino and Lisa Zeeveld.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Welcome To One Next Step, the practical business podcast that helps you run your business and make it stop running you, so you can enjoy your work and your life. I’m Tricia Sciortino, the CEO of BELAY.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

And I’m Lisa Zeeveld, the COO of BELAY. Together, we’re T and LZ. We’ve known each other since 2005, and have had the privilege of working together for almost a decade. We’ve grown a 100% remote business from startup to being recognized on the INC 5000 fastest growing list of companies for six years running.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

LZ and I have learned a lot along the way, and have made some great friends and partners. For the One Next Step, we are cashing in some favors to bring you episodes filled with excellent content, delivered by some talented people. And we may have a thing or two to add ourselves. The One Next Step is here to help you on your leadership journey.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Each week, we release a new episode, answering your questions about running an organization. We will always highlight One Next Step for you to take immediate action, and include an activation guide that reinforces what you’ve heard today.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Today, we are joined by Scott Leese. When it comes to sales, Scott is the man. Not only is he an author, and we will talk about his book, Addicted to the Process, but he is the founder of both Scott Leese Consulting and the Surf & Sales Summit. He is a strategic advisor to companies around the world and was recently named one of the top 25 sales leaders to know. Today, Scott works with domestic and international companies to develop sales strategies and processes. Surf & Sales provides an alternative to typical sales conferences.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

That’s right. Scott’s goal with all organizations is to take them from 0 to 25 million. That is no small task. So, without further ado, let’s listen and learn what Scott has to say about going from small to incredibly successful.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Hey Scott, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining us today.

 

Scott Leese:

Hi, Tricia. Hi, Lisa. Thanks for having me.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Before we get started, Scott, tell us something super fun or interesting about yourself. You are a fascinating fellow, so what have you got to share with our podcast audience today, they should know about you?

 

Scott Leese:

The thing that I’d like to share today is that one of my claims to fame is that I once ran with the bulls in Pamplona, Spain.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

No way!

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Oh.

 

Scott Leese:

Yes. And I was on local TV, primarily because I was so scared shitless that I was at the front of the line, and was one of the first people off the city streets, through the main gate, into the main arena.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

You were furthest from the bulls?

 

Scott Leese:

Oh, as far as humanly possible. My heart, I swear, was going to pump out of my chest. Never have I had so much adrenaline, I don’t think, ever.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Wow. Was that on your bucket list? How do you …

 

Scott Leese:

No.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

No? How do you wind up running with the bulls?

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right. Yeah. Serious.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

How does that happen? How does that happen?

 

Scott Leese:

This happens because you graduate college, and you and some friends think it’d be fun to go to Europe for the summer. And like a day or two before, you realize that you’re an hour and a half train ride away from Pamplona, and it happens to be the week where they’re running the bulls. And so you hop on a train, and you stay up all night partying, because there’s nowhere to sleep. And then, before you know it, you’re running the cobblestone streets filled with spilled beer and wine and other-

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Oh my God.

 

Scott Leese:

Liquids and whatnot. It is insane. Insane. And I would never, ever, ever do it again. And I will be terrified if my boys try to do it.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Wow. But what a cool story.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Oh. They might follow in your footsteps. I know. I love that. See, I’m so glad we asked you that fun fact. Who would know? Yeah.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

And now, in a sense, you’re sort of running with the bulls in your businesses, right? There could be an analogy in there.

 

Scott Leese:

Sure. Well, the analogy is being scared shitless, I suppose. You stop working for somebody else, and you go full bore on your own. And I did that last October, so it’s been a little bit over a year for me that I’ve been, full time, running my own businesses, rather than working for somebody else and doing some stuff on the side.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Well, congratulations for doing that. That’s a dream of a lot of people, both bull running and owning your own business. And you’ve been able to do both successfully. So congratulations.

 

Scott Leese:

Thank you.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Well, speaking of you being on your own, part of this consultancy is that you’re really looking … you want to bring businesses from 0 to $25 million in ARR, which is awesome, because there’s so many businesses who want to reach that sort of milestone. It’s a pretty lofty goal. How likely is that going to happen for a startup?

 

Scott Leese:

Well, statistically speaking, it’s extremely rare. It’s a very, very small number. But I’ve spent my whole career in this particular niche. I’ve always been the guy who’s gone in when there’s like two women in a garage, two guys in a garage, no product market fit, no customers. I just like building things. And I like the momentum that comes with that, and the milestone, and the impact you can have, not just on the business, but on people’s lives. And I like having all that pressure on me as well. If we do well, and I keep the lights on, great. If I do poorly, they’re in big trouble. I’ve just always gravitated to that. And not just as an operator, but also as an advisor, as a consultant, and now running my business full time, I primarily work with clients who are right in that space that we’re talking about.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

I love that. You’re the author of a book, Addicted to the Process, which you just teed up beautifully, with your addiction on making these things work. So when you think about your book and your sales process, as the book title suggests, are there certain steps? Can you walk us through? What are the step-by-steps that you talk through?

 

Scott Leese:

Yeah. It’s actually really simple. And it’s born from … right before I turned 23 years old, I fell gravely ill and spent four years in the hospital, fighting for my life. Had nine major surgeries.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Oh my gosh.

 

Scott Leese:

Four life saving surgeries. Two emergency surgeries. Got hooked on opioids, had to battle through all of that, colon cancer scare, addiction, whatnot. And I recognized when I first got into sales, after all that, that the sales process mirrored the recovery process. So I modeled my sales methodology after recovery. So it’s the addiction model of selling. And it’s very simple, four steps. Four steps. It’s, I can get somebody to admit they have a problem, which is also maybe known as finding pain, right?

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

 

Scott Leese:

The second step would be getting them to understand the value in fixing this problem. We all know, maybe you don’t, but I certainly do know functioning addicts, who know they have an issue, but don’t really feel any need to fix it, because it’s not affecting them in any way, or they don’t understand the benefit of it. So I get people to understand the value of solving this problem.

 

Scott Leese:

Then it’s about creating urgency, getting somebody to recognize this is not a paper cut, this is like a severed limb, that needs attention right away. And then and only then is somebody interested in your solution. Only after I know I have a problem, I understand the importance of fixing it, I realize I need to do something about it now, does somebody hit bottom and is willing to go to recovery and fix this problem. And that just all made sense to me, through everything that I had been through in my life. And I recognize I was selling that way. I wasn’t being taught. I just was intuitively doing it that way.

 

Scott Leese:

Over time, I crystallized the methodology. I’ve taught that way. The book was about transactional sales, but I’ve moved that model into mid-market, enterprise sales, everywhere, across verticals and industries. And I think it caught on a little bit because it’s different. It’s a little bit unique. It’s very simple. And if I’m being honest, a lot of salespeople are half degenerates, or used to be a half degenerate.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Hey, now. Hey, now. Don’t tell my VP of revenue that.

 

Scott Leese:

You relate to it a little bit, right? A lot of people fell into sales. It’s not something somebody went and got a PhD in. So the kind of everyman-ness of the analogy, I think, has resonated with people. That’s it. That’s the process.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. I love that. Where do you like feel the traditional sales model … if there is one, right? You said a lot of people just fall into it, so maybe there’s not a model at all. But where do you think that people get hung up? Why did they resonate with this four step model? Was it because of the simplicity? Or is there a part of sales that’s just inherently broken, and we needed those things?

 

Scott Leese:

Well, the part that’s broken is that everybody thinks their product or service is the cat’s meow, and is the first thing we should all talk about. We’ve all heard the sales pitches, or God forbid, worked at a place that teaches you to sell by saying, “Hi, Lisa, this is Scott. How are you today? I’m with Scott Leese Consulting, and we’d do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” Right?

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right.

 

Scott Leese:

And that’s the standard, broken sales pitch, where you just lead with what you do. Nobody cares what you do if they don’t understand that they have any kind of problem, and that they need to solve this problem whatsoever.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Right. If they want to know, they need your help.

 

Scott Leese:

That’s right. That’s right. And I think that that’s just been a little bit of a light bulb moment for some folks. Like, “Oh, wow. I’ve been pitching the wrong way. I shouldn’t just start telling everybody what I do. I need to ask a lot of questions here. I need to get a dialogue going. I need to learn.” Everybody would call this the discovery part of the sales call.

 

Scott Leese:

And it’s not enough for me to just say to you, “Hey, Lisa, you have a problem on your website.” I need to ask you questions, so you realize and state for yourself,

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right.

 

Scott Leese:

“Oh, wow. I, Lisa … actually, you’re right. I do have this issue on my site. I’ve been meaning to fix it. I haven’t gotten around to doing it.” That’s way more powerful. And again, back to the addict analogy, you don’t walk up to somebody who’s struggling with addiction and say, “Hey, you have a problem. You need to go to rehab, straight away.” Because everybody will recoil from that.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Sure.

 

Scott Leese:

Instead, you have a dialogue with them, and you hopefully get them to open up and say, “Yes. I have a problem, and I should probably do something about it.”

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Well, that-

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

No, that’s great. Once you have these four steps, and you’ve got a mom and pop, you’ve got two girls in a garage, two guys in a garage, who are trying to make this thing work, and they’re looking to scale, and they need somebody to sell their products, because they’re probably not good at selling their own products. It’s kind of interesting how that works. And they want to start building a sales team, how do they go about doing that? Because your philosophy is that there are a lot of great products out there, and a lot of great services that could make it, but they’re not. Why do you feel like that’s the case, and does that help to build the right type of sales team around it?

 

Scott Leese:

I think there’s a couple of things that are interesting. Number one, I think people try to do things that are outside of their skillset and strength. Too many businesses try to do this on their own. And it’s just not their skillset. Let’s say the two of you are software engineers. Well, selling is not necessarily your strong suit. It doesn’t come naturally to you. It’s not your discipline. You don’t study it. But you don’t want to pay somebody to do it, so you try to do it on your own, and therefore it never really gets off the ground. That’s one thing, I think, is that people are a bit unwilling to ask for help, and outsource those things about themselves that they’re weak at, and focus on the things that they’re really good at.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

You’re preaching to the choir here. That’s what we say all the time.

 

Scott Leese:

We were laughing before the show because I can barely operate a computer. That’s not my strong suit. I know the things that I need help at. You can’t scale unless you get what’s in your head, that is working, onto paper. And when you get it on paper, now you can codify it, and turn it into a process that is repeatable, and I can give it to others. So if the three of us have some product, the three of us might be super passionate about it. We know how to sell it. We’re charismatic. We know every whizz-bang piece of functionality that there is. Well, we try to hire people, and we’re just like, “Oh, hey, Kevin. Here, this is the product. Go sell it.” And we leave them on their own. And Kevin’s over here, like, “Well, wait a second. What do I say? How do I say it? What happens if I get this objection? I don’t know anything about the competitor.”

 

Scott Leese:

What you’ve got to do is you’ve got to get all these things that are tribal knowledge in your head onto paper, then simplify it a little bit, because no one is probably ever going to know as much about the business, nor be as passionate as you. So you can’t try to teach people to do exactly what you do. You’ve got to find a more simplistic way to explain it and document it. And if that process is successful, now you’re onto something, and it can scale.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Codify it. I love that. That’s great.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. That’s a great word. And I think it’s so important. Sales, in every aspect of a business, is putting things on paper so they can be replicatable in all areas of your business. We at BELAY, we practice that in sales, and in marketing, and in account management, and finance. It’s good business practice to grow a business is to have things orderly, processed out, so that people can easily understand what the job is, they’re clear on what they’re supposed to do, and they have their marching orders in front of them. So I love that.

 

Scott Leese:

So many don’t do it, though. That’s the strange part, right?

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Isn’t it crazy?

 

Scott Leese:

Yeah. I mean-

 

Tricia Sciortino:

They’re going to start now. They’re going to listen to this podcast, and they’re going to go grab a pen and paper, soon as they’re done, and they’re going to start writing it all down.

 

Scott Leese:

Well, they should, because you can get away with a certain … you might be able to get to one or two million, for example, without doing it this particular way. And your views and beliefs become skewed. You’re winning in spite of yourself, in doing it that way. But if you really want to take it to the next level, you’ve got to put it down on paper and codify these things. That’s how businesses really, truly scale to a special level of 5 million, 10 million, 25 million, and beyond.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. I was going to say it’s delivering the same quality each and every time. The example that I use, good or bad, is like, “I can have a Big Mac here in America, or I can be in Paris, France, and have the same Big Mac, because they have found a way to create it exactly the same, no matter where you are in the world.” And I think that that’s what our clients expect of us, in whatever product and service we offer, is that they can go talk to their friend, and they’re getting the same thing every single time. I think that’s really important. And truthfully, that’s why here at BELAY, that’s why we write everything down, is so that everybody’s getting that same service.

 

Scott Leese:

Well, y’all are way ahead of the game compared to most.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. I was teasing to say, it’s like building. I always think of it as building a well-oiled machine. If you put the processes in place, it starts functioning on its own, so that you, as the leader, can be free to then go do-

 

Scott Leese:

That’s right.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

The next big thing you need to do. Set it in motion. Create the process. Set it. And then move on to the next big thing. But things aren’t going to function well on their own if they don’t have a system. Anyway, I love that. I love that. And I’m going to totally switch gears right here, because one of the things you talk about, and I find this fascinating, and so I want to hear your thoughts on it, is that a sales leaderboard is outdated and narrow-minded. Talk to me about sales leaderboards being old school.

 

Scott Leese:

It’s just a coin-operated mentality that is dying off, and should probably be killed off, where salespeople are just thought of as coin-operated, and money-motivated, and competitive only. The leaderboard, in and of itself, might have been enough in 2010, or 2000, or 1990, or whatever. That was enough. But today’s modern seller cares about a lot more and a lot different things. It’s not that they don’t care about winning or they’re not competitive. There’s a lot more emphasis, though, on learning, and growth, and development, and opportunity. There’s a hyper focus on speed, speed of execution, speed of growth and development, speed of their career path. So you have to offer employees and your sellers more.

 

Scott Leese:

And it can’t just be about the revenue number or the meetings booked number. There’s all these different functions now. We’ve siloed off so many different parts of the sales function, and we’ve over-metricked everything. And I’ve often said, “Data may be king, but it’s not a God.” We can’t let the data just rule us entirely. We’re dealing with human beings, still. Until AI can replicate emotion and understand feeling on sales calls, we’re still needed. In leading a sales organization, I need to be able to understand Tricia’s situation in her life, not just professional life, but also personal life, because maybe her metrics are down because she’s dealing with family issues.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

How’d you know?

 

Scott Leese:

Now I’m afraid to say what I was going to say about Lisa. [inaudible 00:19:21].

 

Tricia Sciortino:

We are in a pandemic. Of course there’s family issues.

 

Scott Leese:

There’s new ones that we have to understand, because you can’t just, as a sales leader, go smash your team upside the head and be like, “You need to make more calls. You need to do this. You need to close more deals.” No, you need to understand a better 360 degree view of the person and the circumstances, and then coach to those particular things. That’s what I mean when I talk about the leaderboard being dead. A leaderboard, standalone, is not enough anymore.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. I think that goes into also helping to create a really healthy culture within an organization. And I think, when I view it that way, it sounds like a good attention grabber to say, “The leaderboard is old, and it’s narrow-minded.” But really, what you’re saying is, “It’s a great tool. Just don’t let the tool rule your organization.” I view individuals, our team members, as holistic beings. They’re going to have areas where they’re going to need coached up. I have my own flaws and my own gaps, and I’m looking to fill those, and it’s really finding somebody who believes in your organization. And wants to work hard, obviously is goal-driven, but at the same time, you’re actually showing up and leading them.

 

Scott Leese:

Yeah. Again, back to scale, the trick is to do it at scale. It’s really easy for me to lead and behave that way with five people on my team. It’s a whole nother beast entirely when I have 50 or 250, scattered across four or five states, like I’ve had before. That is a whole different animal. And what you’re trying to do is lead the way you’re talking about, Lisa, no matter the size of your organization. And that’s what’s tricky, and that trips people up sometimes, and they get stuck on, “Well, let’s just use the leaderboard.” Or, “Let’s just use the metrics.” Because I don’t have time to understand the personalities of all 50 people on my team.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Do you also think that that goes into who you’re hiring? Is there a certain “it” factor in who you’re hiring as well, so that you don’t have as much coaching when you’re looking at having a team of 200 people?

 

Scott Leese:

I think you got to be careful, because if you end up optimizing for hiring people who don’t need a lot of coaching, you end up optimizing for people who think they know how to do everything already on their own. And they don’t ask for help, and they’re not open to new and fresh ideas. I think, rather than optimizing for that, you’re optimizing for curiosity, for people who are ambitious and looking to grow, people who are charismatic, and that’s a hard thing to pinpoint, but is it interesting? Am I interested in having a conversation with Lisa during this interview process? Am I looking at my watch, or paying attention to my emails while I’m on this Zoom interview with Tricia? Or am I focused on the conversation? Can somebody tell good and compelling stories? Can they ask good, meaningful questions with intent, that are not just checking a box? Can I see and imagine why they’re asking me this particular question? Can I figure out where they’re going? Those are the things that I’m trying to pinpoint and optimize for in the hiring process. That is all part of the “it” factor to me.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

If you’re anything like me, then keeping up with the daily tasks of AR, AP, and account reconciliation are not your favorite things. But you also know how necessary and important it is. The good news is it doesn’t have to be your thing anymore. BELAY can help.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Numbers are totally my thing, Tricia, and thankfully, numbers are BELAY bookkeepers’ thing, too. Our sponsor, BELAY, believes you deserve top notch bookkeepers to produce balance sheets, pay bills, reconcile bank and credit card statements, and monthly reports to keep you up to date on the numbers of your organization, whether you’re a church, nonprofit, or a business, they have the right people ready to help. Talk to their team today and never lose sleep over your financials again. Get started by visiting BelaySolutions.com/services/bookkeepers today.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

We have a mutual friend, and so I reached out to him this morning, Casey Graham of Gravy. And I just said, “Hey, I know you work with Scott, and we’re having him on the show today. What would you ask?” And he said, “Definitely ask him, what is the one thing that you’ve done in sales leadership that you aren’t proud of?” It was like 9:00 AM. He was pretty deep at 9:00 AM, but I think that’s a good question to ask, because you’ve done a lot. So just one.

 

Scott Leese:

I’ll give you one, and it’s a bad one. I have spent my whole career, as an operator, when I’ve been full-time VP of sales. Stay in each place about two and a half to three years. That’s my thing. I go, get in, I figure it out. It gets to 300 to 500 people, and I’m like, “Bah, red tape, I can’t can’t handle it.” My mistake, many times over, sadly, is I didn’t do a good enough job of putting the right person in place to take over for me. I didn’t have a good succession plan, if that makes sense.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Sure, yeah.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Totally. Yeah.

 

Scott Leese:

And my ego was such that I took a little bit of pride in watching the organization struggle after my departure.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Without you. Yeah.

 

Scott Leese:

Yeah. And in reality, I cost myself millions of dollars, because the valuation of these companies, let’s say, was 100 when I left. And as it dips to 95, 90, 80, 50, what have you, I’m cannibalizing myself. And what a stupid, stupid thing that was. And finally, through experience, I learned to set myself up for the future by bringing in my replacement. And so I lobby really, really hard for somebody who’s as good, if not better than me, to come work alongside me for six, seven, eight months, as I already knew that I was going to start to transition out. And now, when I walk away, the company is in very capable hands, and I have no pride of ownership. I’m like, “Yep, so-and-so’s got it.” And now I watch the company to continue to grow. If one person who’s in a leadership role can hear that story and not make the same mistake as me, that would make me feel good. I made the mistake multiple times, I’m not proud to say. But I did fix it, at least.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. Well, I love that. And we are the most practical business podcast in the world, self-proclaimed. And I love how you just tied that all in such a bow. You gave our listeners one thing that they could do right now, and that’s succession planning, making sure that, if they’re leaving an organization, for whatever reason, if they’re the solopreneur, and they’re owning it, and want to sell it someday, make sure you’ve got somebody there. Or if you’re leading a team of people, make sure that you are finding your replacement. Because I also like how you talked about money. It actually hurt you in the long run because of these valuations. And the reputation, I would imagine, right?

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Yep.

 

Scott Leese:

Sure. If somebody looks and glances at your resume, and they recognize brand one, two, and three, as all having big, huge, successful outcomes, that’s a boost to whatever you do in the future. Whereas, if they look back at your resume, and they see brand one, two, and three, and they’re like, “Eh, that was okay,” or, “Oh, that was nothing,” that’s going to have less of an impact. Right?

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Sure.

 

Scott Leese:

And that longer term vision was something that was lacking when I was younger.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, Scott, you’ve given us so many good nuggets today. Thank you so much for joining our show. I love talking with you, and I know that our listeners have enjoyed it as well. So thanks so much.

 

Scott Leese:

Well, you’re both welcome. Thank you for having me.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Wow, Scott was such a fun guest today. I love talking with him. So I’m curious, Tricia, what is your takeaway from the conversation?

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Yes. He was so fun. Running with the bulls and all. That’s fascinating. Fascinating fellow. It was such an honor to talk to him today. There were so many good nuggets. My favorite was his … I’m going to misquote him, but he said, “Metrics are king, but they are not God.” And wow, isn’t that so true? We can really get lost in the numbers and forget the human element of everything. How he related that back to the leaderboard mentality being very narrow, and it just being very one-sided, but that really stuck with me, that quote. I actually wrote it down.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Nice.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

We are very focused on metrics. I’m a very metrics-driven person. I love data. But it’s a great reminder that it’s not all the things.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Right.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

It’s a great measure, but it’s not God. So that was really great for me. What about you, LZ?

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah. When I transitioned into that question about, what does it look like for the “it” person in sales? And we were talking about scalability, and do you want to find somebody that perhaps there’s not as much coaching? And he corrected me pretty quick. And he’s like, “No, no, no. That’s not what I’m saying, because you do want to find somebody who is coachable, somebody who is curious, somebody who is creative.” Perhaps in my words, somebody who’s a little scrappy. You really want to understand that individual, because the leader board is going to be a tool to help coaching them. But if they’re not coachable, and if they already come in and they think they know it all, and they don’t like to receive that kind of feedback, then it doesn’t matter how good they are. They’re not going to make a great team member, and ultimately, that’s going to hurt your culture.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

I think that that’s a good takeaway for anybody listening today, not just for their sales team, but so many other teams are also metric-driven. Here at BELAY, we’ve got our talent acquisition team, that’s very metric-driven. Obviously, finance is metric-driven. Every single department. We have KPIs for every single person here.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Everybody.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Everybody. When you’re going to hire that next person, using the data, but also making sure that they’re curious and coachable and creative, and are going to hold on to your mission, I think is super important, because especially for salespeople, so often we let them lead with the number, the amount of sales. “Hey, I brought in $20 million in sales.” And you’re thinking, “Oh, can they do that for my organization?” But they might not be. You know?

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Yeah.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Absolutely.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

All right. Well, you guys know what time it is. It is time for the One Next Step. As the most practical business podcast, we want to make sure taking action isn’t overwhelming to you. So with each episode, we’re going to offer you One Next Step, to propel you and your business forward. And today’s Next Step is to download our activation guide, Scott Leese on Sales, which is a curated list of Scott’s best articles on sales strategy, process, people, infrastructure, and so much more. Man, that’s going to be a great resource.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

We knew there’d be no way we could learn everything Scott has to teach us about sales on just one podcast, so we rounded up some of his best stuff so you can continue to go deeper. We believe this will help you develop processes for building and leading your own team as a small business.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

Excellent. I’m so excited for this download. To download it now, text the phrase “One Next Step” to 31996, or visit OneNextStepPodcast.com. When you request today’s guide, you’re also going to receive a summary of today’s episode, which will include key quotes and takeaways, and links to resources mentioned in the episode.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of One Next Step. We hope you enjoy what you are hearing from us, and now, we want to hear from you. Head on over to Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and leave us a review. We created this podcast to help you lead your team and grow your business, so we read every one of them.

 

Tricia Sciortino:

And as we kick off the new year, we’d like to make sure that the podcast is helpful to you, so submit your business questions, so one of us or a future guest can answer it during an upcoming episode by calling the One Next Step listener line at (404) 480-3003. That’s (404) 480-3003. And till next time, own your journey. It’s your life and your business. It’s up to you to create the life and organization you want. Join us next week for more practical tips and actionable tools to advance your business, one step at a time.

 

Lisa Zeeveld:

Start by making today count.

 

Speaker 2:

Thanks for listening to One Next Step. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or follow us on Spotify. Then join us next time for more practical business tips and tools to help you get more done, to grow your business, and lead your team with confidence. For more episodes, show notes, and helpful resources, visit OneNextStepPodcast.com.

Download our activation guide, “Scott Leese on Sales,” which is a curated list of Scott’s best articles on sales strategy, process, people, infrastructure and more. We knew there would be no way we could learn everything Scott has to teach us about sales on one podcast, so we rounded some of his best stuff so you continue going deeper. We believe this will help you develop processes for building and leading your own team as a small business.

 

Download Now

 

In each episode, we highlight one next step for you and provide an activation or delegation guide to help you immediately take action, start applying what you learn, and get your team to help you.

Subscribe Today!

To get practical business tips and tools delivered to you each week, subscribe to the podcast via email here or on your favorite podcast platform (which we’ve listed below).  It’s like DVR for podcasts.

 

Subscribe using your favorite podcast app via

Join Us Next Week

Thank you for listening to One Next Step.

Join us next week for a Masterclass episode in which Tricia and Lisa talk about how to set personal goals as a business leader. So often leaders set business goals before planning their personal goals. This doesn’t allow for much flexibility when it comes to building your dreams outside of your organization – your life is already spoken for! In next week’s episode, we want to help you stay focused on what truly matters to you.