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The 8 Pillars of Trust

David Horsager’s Trusted Leader master class is a valuable tool that will help you gain trust and grow as a leader. Access it now!

 

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About This Episode

Everything of value is built on trust. You’ll pay more for the trusted brand, follow the trusted leader, and buy from the trusted salesperson. Trust is the single uniqueness of the greatest leaders, organizations and brands of all time. 

 

In this episode Tricia and LZ are joined by David Horsager, CEO of Trust Edge Leadership Institute and the best-selling author of The Trust Edge. He’s here to discuss his 8 pillars of trust and how you can practically become more trustworthy as a leader.

1. Leaders lose clarity because of time and change.

The world is constantly changing and leaders need to adapt with those changes. Everyone could have more clarity at times. It’s vital to know when the changing environment around you could be affecting the clarity of your message. Restate your message early and often.

2. There is a difference between confidentiality and transparency. 

Transparency shows authenticity. But sometimes, depending on the situation, you may need to be more confidential as a leader. Not everyone needs to know everything at all times – and there are good reasons for that. Use your judgment to determine the right balance between the two.

3. Follow the 3-step process to clarity.

Ask these three questions: How? How? How? In other words, when looking for clarity, keep asking “how?” until you get to your actionable item – the thing you’re going to do tomorrow to get started. This will help you get down to the root of the issue and take practical steps.

 

Of the 8 pillars of trust that David mentions, which 1-2 pillars feel most natural to you?
Which 1-2 pillars do you struggle with most, or too often overlook?
Who is a trustworthy leader that you’ve worked with now or in the past? How did their presence have an impact on you?
What’s one actionable step you can take, based on David’s advice, to become even more trustworthy?

When people start to see trust as the issue, they actually start to solve the real issue.

David Horsager

The only way to rebuild trust is to make and keep a new commitment.

David Horsager

Trust isn’t something you either have or don't have. You can actively build trust every day.

David Horsager

A lack of trust is the biggest expense.

David Horsager

(01:54) David answers the question of where he would live if he lived outside the U.S.

(04:09) David talks about his story and how he became the go-to expert on trust with leaders. 

(07:34) Trust is at the core of everything with leadership. 

(08:08) A lack of trust is the biggest expense in the bottom line. 

(09:18) How do leaders begin making actionable change and become more trustworthy?

(10:00) David walks through the 8 pillars of trust. 

(14:45) What 1-2 pillars do leaders most often struggle with or overlook?

(18:46) 92% of employees said they would trust their senior leader more if they were transparent about their mistakes. 

(19:29) Transparency and confidentiality are two different things. 

(21:24) What is a great actionable step a leader can do right now to make progress in gaining trust?

(22:58) The only way to rebuild trust as a leader is to make and keep a new commitment. 

(28:30) Look at the 8 pillars and find one that needs work. Then continue asking yourself “how” you are going to go about getting there. 

(30:27) This week’s download: David Horsager’s Trusted Leader masterclass.

David Horsager:

It is so difficult for leaders to keep clarity in this world because of two things, time and change. We’ll talk about trust right now and tomorrow people will forget, “Oh, I really love that podcast. Aw, that was really cool. It was about…” We have such a busy, fast paced, noisy world, we’re losing clarity every day, because of time and change.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to One Next Step, the most practical business podcast in the world, helping you get more done, grow your business and lead your team with confidence, with tips and tools you didn’t get in business school. Here are your hosts, Tricia Sciortino and Lisa Zeeveld.

Tricia Sciortino:

Welcome to One Next Step. I’m Tricia, the CEO of BELAY. My co-host Lisa is out today, so I’m going to be going solo on this episode. For the One Next Step Podcast, we want to bring you episodes filled with excellent content. We’re here to help you on your leadership journey and, ultimately, help you enjoy your work and your life. Today we’re talking about trust. Of course, being a trusted leader matters, but how do you practically become more trustworthy as a leader? Joining us is the CEO of Trust Edge Leadership Institute, David Horsager. David is also the best-selling author of the Trust Edge. Early this year. David released his new book, Trusted Leader, 8 Pillars That Drive Results, which we’re going to link to in the show notes. David has a lot of insight to give us, so let’s get started. Welcome to the One Next Step Podcast, David. It is a pleasure to have you with us today.

David Horsager:

Thank you so much, Tricia. This is going to be fun.

Tricia Sciortino:

I know. I’m ready for a fun conversation. And speaking of fun, I have a fun question for you. We were just talking about how you got back from a really fun family vacation, but if you were to live anywhere outside of the U.S., you’ve traveled all around the world. Like where would you go and where would you live if you were not in the U.S.?

David Horsager:

Wow, that’s a great question. I love the United States of America and I love to travel. We do work, obviously, on six continents, as you know. The only place that isn’t using Trust Edge work right now is Antarctica.

Tricia Sciortino:

How dare they?

David Horsager:

Yeah, exactly. Funny, I’m going to choose a place I’ve never been to actually. I’ve been to the country, but not the city. I’ve heard great things about Barcelona and we have some family there in Madrid and I’ve been to Spain and Madrid, Toledo, a lot of that, but I think Barcelona would be an interesting place to live for a time. But there’s lots of places. We’re doing some really neat work that I’m passionate about in Kenya, so Nairobi might be another place I’d pick. Those are quite different.

Tricia Sciortino:

I love it. I love it.

David Horsager:

Today, I’ll go with Barcelona.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah, I love it. Maybe tomorrow it will be a different one.

David Horsager:

Yeah. Exactly.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah, I’d like to live on my own island, actually.

David Horsager:

You know you don’t see as the hermit type.

Tricia Sciortino:

You’re thinking I would miss the people part of it, living on an island by myself?

David Horsager:

I’m thinking so.

David Horsager:

I obviously, been on several, but after a time, they get small.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. Well, how about an island…

David Horsager:

Or you just want to own Greenland. Okay.

Tricia Sciortino:

I want to be like Richard Branson and have my own little island that I can live in, but then I can boat and fly to the mainland.

David Horsager:

Yeah, you get the helicopter and jet. Okay.

Tricia Sciortino:

I can make my way to Miami, or something like that, if I’m missing the people. But, yeah. I’d love to live on some Caribbean islands. That’s what I would love to do, anyway. That’s my non U.S.

David Horsager:

We’ll come visit.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. Yeah, really. Anyway, I love it. Well, I’m so thrilled to have you on today to talk a lot about leadership and trust. You have an amazing new book out 8 Pillars of Trust, which I’m looking forward to digging into a little bit. But before we even get there, I’d love to hear a little bit about your story and how it is you became to be the go-to expert on trust for leaders. It is a fascinating story and I’d love you to share it.

David Horsager:

Sure. The subtitle is what you said. The book is called Trusted Leader. That’s the new one. And a couple other books are Wall Street Journal bestsellers. All my work is around trust and the journey, I was doing a part of a big youth and family organization. Kanakuk Kamps 20 something years ago. I came back, I built some leadership curriculum, Lisa and I started our first company in 1999. We got asked to do some of this leadership work here, there. I started thinking it was intuitive at first. I was like, “That’s not a leadership issue. It’s a trust issue. They don’t trust the leader. That’s not a sales issue. They’re not buying because they don’t trust the leader. It’s not a marketing issue. That’s not that marketing is having no impact because they don’t trust the message.

David Horsager:

So I just intuitive at first that led to my grad work, which became important and interesting to people much more known than me, way back. But then we started using the work and the results were amazing to myself and others. The first significant company we use it on, they said, “In nine months, we saved 2 to 4 million in electrician costs.” Then we had someone say they tripled sales in 90 days. We had someone else say save their marriage. So it was like personal and organizational and then my grad work. Then that first book became Wall Street Journal bestseller from this farm kid from Minnesota at a time when I was not known by anybody and little by little now, 20-something years later out of the Institute here, we put out the, I think the biggest study of trust and leadership out of North America. It’s cool to study and Edelman does a great global work, bigger work to on research side.

David Horsager:

But we have some of the best measurement tools for measuring trust and closing gaps in organizations. We, obviously, speak and train around the world. Then we have a platform for coaches that can get certified. So now we have certified coaches on six continents, and we also certified folks inside of big companies that keep driving a high-performing culture on trust. So, maybe, I want to make this interactive, but maybe we should back up for one second and say this. I believe today with a whole lot of passion and research on six continents and our study without ego, I believe I can say at the core, the root issue is always a trust issue. And most people get it wrong. That’s why I wrote Trusted Leader because they’re solving the wrong issue. They think it’s an engagement issue.

David Horsager:

It never is. The only way to increase engagement is trust. Then it gets a net promoter score, or a referral issue. It never is. The research shows the only way to get more referrals, is to increase trust. You think it’s a leadership issue. It never is. The reason a leader is followed or not is trust, its not a sales issue. The reason people buy or not is trust, it’s not a marketing issue. The only way to amplify a marketing message is trust. It’s not an innovation issue. The only way to increase innovation on the team is increased trust, so people will share ideas. Mark, diversity and inclusion equity. The biggest study shows, a Harvard study shows diversity on its own pits people against each other. It tends to, unless you increase trust, then you get the benefits of diversity and equity, which we, obviously, know, is incredibly valuable and research-based. Even learning. You take our kid’s classroom. The only way to increase learning in a classroom is increased trust either in the teacher, the content or the psychological safety or trust of the room.

David Horsager:

So when people start to see trust as the issue, they actually start to solve the real issue. And then we see there’s actually a way to build it. That goes beyond the trite things that people might think like a just integrity or this or that.

Tricia Sciortino:

Wow, that is profound. And I imagine life-changing for a leader to actually recognize that that is the core missing component to maybe gaps they see in their business or their leadership, and then to reality. And so I imagine you spend a lot of time helping people’s leaders see why there is that gap and then how to then become the trusted leader.

David Horsager:

Absolutely. The other part of this, and this goes back to my original research, which is a little bit interesting to people. The first half of my original research, the big finding was a lack of trust is the biggest expense. The biggest cost is actually a lack of trust. You think about this, people didn’t see it like, “Oh, a trust is a soft skill.” No, the biggest cost, even in the bottom line or an impact is actually trust. You think of if I don’t trust you, a good example of a lack of trust without all the research is a lock. I don’t trust you, so I put a lock on something. So what’s the cost of that lack of trust? Well, I got to buy the lock. That’s money. But the biggest cost is time. Now I got to open it every time I go through the gate. Massive. Or text someone you trust. It’s done. Now trying to text someone you don’t trust. How long does that take? How are they going to take this?

Tricia Sciortino:

Edit. Revise.

David Horsager:

Yeah. So there’s a whole lot and we show that. That first research showed when trust increased attrition went down, retention went up, cost, problems, skepticism went down. So it was the leading indicator. I will argue this, that trust is always the leading indicator. We’re looking for leading indicators for success. Trust is always the leading, everything else lag. So when we solve trust, we solve engagement, we solve retention, but we have to work at it, and it’s something that people can work on. It’s not something you have or don’t. You can actively build trust every day.

Tricia Sciortino:

So talk about that. So let’s say, actionably speaking, you have a leader, there are trust issues. They’ve recognized that they have these issues that maybe their retention is poor or results are poor. I know as part of your book, you talk about these concepts and pillars of trust. How do they play into making change?

David Horsager:

Yep, absolutely. That’s what people say we’re good at, is research-based but actionable tomorrow morning. But first we have to have that common language, because these eight pillars, they’re not just trite pillars in a motivational book. They came out of research, so these eight traits of the most trusted leaders and organizations. They are noted or denoted by a C-word. That’s not because it’s some, “Oh, we’ll make it all Cs,” but these C words represent the funnel’s really of how trust is built. I believe, actually, without ego, you can solve every organizational and leadership issue against these eight. It doesn’t mean it’s easy. We use it globally. You can contextualize it. I’ll give the eight very quickly. I’ll give everything away. People can get the book. There’s a bunch more takeaways in it. There’s free resources we’re going to give your audience.

David Horsager:

Of course, if you’d like it, but let me give them because we have to have a common language. So I’ll try not to go deep here, because I can give the takeaways of how you build each one, an you can ask me and I’ll give a takeaway under anyone you want. The eight pillars is so people can see, “Oh, that’s the issue.” So there clarity. Number one is clarity. People trust the clear and they mistrust or distrust the ambiguous or the overly complex. And there’s counterforces, so complexity, ambiguity. Just to take this one and see how it works for everyone. Well, the leader, maybe they’re not clear about the vision, so people aren’t following. The manager, maybe they’re not clear about expectations, so people are buying it. The sales person, maybe the sales person’s not being bought from, even though they’re really clear about how cool they are and how long they’ve been in business, but they’re not clear about the benefits to me of that product, so I don’t buy.

David Horsager:

The teacher. “Well, this is a compassionate teacher. Why do the kids hate the teacher?” Turns out that teacher is unclear about the assignments, so the kids go home frustrated and they start to hate the teacher. In every case, in this scenario, it was a clarity issue. So clarity. Number two is compassion. We trust those that care beyond ourselves. We have a hard time falling or being accountable to someone who doesn’t care, even if they don’t care about us, care about a mission or something beyond themselves. Number three is character. Many think, “Oh, character’s everything.” It’s foundational, but it’s not everything still. Still, we have a seven-step process for how you drive character into an organization. There’s some questions you should ask as a leader around character, it’s foundational.

David Horsager:

Number four is competency. For this very reason, I might trust Tricia to take my kids to the ball game. She has character. She has compassion. But that doesn’t mean I’ll trust Tricia to give me a root canal, because of competency.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah, you shouldn’t.

David Horsager:

Right. You’ve got to stay fresh and relevant and capable. So people listening, if you’re leading the way you were 10 years ago, I don’t trust you. If you’re selling the way you were five years ago, I don’t trust you. You’ve got to stay fresh and relevant and capable. And there’s a lot of overlap here of what BELAY has done to be that, which is pretty cool. The next pillar is commitment. We trust those that stay committed in the face of adversity. If you see people that have left a real legacy in history, or Mandela, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Jesus, or Joan of arc, and you’ll find people that were committed to something beyond themselves, and they’re often trusted for it, often to death.

David Horsager:

Next pillar is connection. We trust those that are willing to connect and collaborate with others. If we see siloing in an organization, unwillingness to share resources, we know that lack of trust across the organization is hurting resourcing and hurting the bottom line and impact and a host of other things. The next pillar is seventh pillar here is contribution. Some of the key words that came out of this research funnel were results, performance, outcomes. So you might be compassionate. You might have character in a way, but if you don’t get the results I expect or ask for, contribute the results, I’m not going to trust you. You could be a surgeon that’s really compassionate and could go in for amputation, cut off the wrong leg. We’ve got a problem, right?

Tricia Sciortino:

Big problem. Big problem.

David Horsager:

Final pillar. It’s the queen and king. It is the pillar over everything. Even though it sits at the foundation. Consistency. We trust whatever you do consistently. So if you’re late all the time, I will, in fact, trust you to be late. People may not like McDonald’s, but they trust McDonald’s. I’ve had the same burger on six continents. So sameness is trusted. Consistency. The only way to build a reputation as a leader is consistency. The only way they’ll build a brand as a company is consistency. So now that was brief and quick. But now we have a language to tie every issue to, and we have a way to solve those. So we’re not going to get in all these. But we have spa method under compassion and the seven steps for character the plan for clarity. These ways that we build them tomorrow morning and people can get those from the book or we’ll give away whatever we can in this time or whatever we can online. We love this stuff. I’m passionate about this work.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yes, as you should be. It’s great work and I love your passion. Do you see a commonality among maybe a top two or three… the ones you see most frequently as a gap or maybe ones that maybe leaders are really missing? I know you said, foundationally, consistency is the most important. But are there one or two of them that are totally overlooked or so common?

David Horsager:

Actually, even though I said consistency is foundational and affects the others so much. And they do interplay with each other. In the research, they’re relatively co-equal and it depended on the scenario. Boy, that babysitter, I want high character. As a golfer, I want high competency. I want that person to we hit it. I don’t care what they do when they’re not on the…” Whatever. But in the way we talk about being a trusted leader or gaining the trust edge, we want all eight, I will say you can look at all eight, and many people without taking any of our assessments, have a gut check, and like, “We’re doing this one well. That one we need to work on.” But if they didn’t know, I would start with clarity, and here’s the reason. It is so difficult for leaders to keep clarity in this world because of two things. Time and change.

David Horsager:

We’ll talk about trust right now. And tomorrow people will forget, “Oh, I really loved that podcast. That was really cool was about…” We have such a busy, fast-paced, noisy world, we’re losing clarity every day, because of time and change. Think about this, if we’re absolutely clear about the values, the character pillar gets stronger. If we’re absolutely clear about our vision, certain the commitment tends to get stronger, that pillar. If we’re absolutely clear about expectations, consistency pillar gets strong. So clarity pillar we can do something about when we can see change in two weeks. If you have an issue with the character pillar or commitment pillar, it’s going to take more time, could take a lot of things. So that would be an idea to, “Hey, start with clarity,” because every one of us has an issue with clarity somewhere.

Tricia Sciortino:

You are working too many hours, and it’s bleeding over into your evenings and weekends. You are missing valuable family time and, honestly, life is zipping by you. Sound familiar? Let’s get uncomfortably honest here. How long has it been since you were fully present and felt peace? It’s probably too long. You know how I know? Because I’ve been there.

Lisa Zeeveld:

But as with any struggle or obstacle in life, the first step is admitting you have a problem. You may not have everything under control. You know who can help you get everything under control? A BELAY virtual assistant. Stop spending countless hours every week on tasks that someone else could do for you. Contact us today to discover how you can reclaim your schedule, focus on what matters and achieve the growth you and your business deserve. Get started by visiting belaysolutions.com/services/assistants today.

Tricia Sciortino:

Well, and I think that sometimes there’s this expectation or there’s this thought process as a leader. I know I have my thoughts about a CEO of a company, that there are things you should be transparent about and things maybe you’re not supposed to be transparent about, and I’m up of the school that you just be transparent about everything, because we’re all grown ups here and I don’t like secrets. I don’t like to pander to people. I have a hard time not being actually truly faithfully authentic as a person, and so as a leader of an organization, like good, bad or ugly, if you work for BELAY, you’re going to know exactly what’s going on in BELAY. Good, bad or ugly.

David Horsager:

That’s really fantastic. I’ll tell you this statistic from the last couple of year’s research. And if you want the research, we give it away at trustoutlook.com, it’s the research site. One of the studies, 92% of employees said they would trust their senior leader more if they were more transparent about their mistakes, so not just transparency. I want to balance this out a little bit and say a few things, because one thing is we think we went on, “Oh, I’m cool. I got this award. I got that award.” We actually might be admired for awards, but we’re more trusted when we see humanness in our mistakes, and we understand we all have challenges. There is something else I will balance this whole piece around with, because people think they know it all about trust. I thought I knew it all about trust before I did the research.

David Horsager:

Maybe not all, but I kind of knew what it was. And it’s so much more complex than people think. And here’s one way. There’s people who even say transparency is trust. Transparency is trust. It’s the definition, vulnerability and transparency. Like I just said in that statistic, and the way you’re leading, it’s incredibly valuable. However, some of your kids are so transparent on social media, I don’t trust them for a second, because confidentiality is also trusted. So there actually is a place for transparency, and there is, as a leader, a place for confidentiality. Other things are like that too, so it just is a little more complex in certain scenarios. Now, the way you’re running it is a great way to be transparent, and it backs up that statistic I showed. But on the other hand, in sixth grade I told this boy I liked this girl. He told everybody and trust them ever again, because that was a place to be confidential.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. I love that. You said that because that’s actually where I see that that tension arise, is that there are things that are confidential that won’t be shared, and that’s when people make, “Well, why didn’t you tell me,” or, “I didn’t know.” And it’s like, “Well, you couldn’t know.” There’s that dynamic you’re playing into as a leader, like what you’re able to be vulnerable and transparent about and what is confidential. So I love that you bring that up, because there are conflicting at times.

David Horsager:

They are conflicting, and ther/e’s other things like that. Oh, confidence is trusted, but if that leads to arrogance, it isn’t. It takes a long time to build trust. It takes a long time. Doesn’t take a long time. Well, no. On 9/11, complete strangers trust each other in a second, if they’re running the same direction, so you have these tensions that help people think bigger about this concept, which is really important to see that because trust, it is central. It is the root issue. We have to understand really what it is, and then this framework for building it, of course.

Tricia Sciortino:

Yeah. I was just going to ask you the next question. We’re the most practical business podcasts and we love to give our listeners a very practical next-step tip, like, “Okay, you finished listening to this conversation. Now go do X.” For me, I feel like the tip is, “Go read the book. Go check out the resources, and start working through that.” But in addition to that, is there anything you would say is a great actionable step, a leader who is listening right now can take to make progress in the trust of their team.

David Horsager:

All right. So let’s over-deliver. I’ll give two. First one I need to people to just think differently. The second one will be more actionable. I’ll leave everybody in a cliffhanger. The second one, we’ve seen people triple sales in 90 days and it’s the way I lost 52 pounds in five months. Okay.

Tricia Sciortino:

Wow. Okay.

David Horsager:

That’s second. First, we got to just mention one thing. Something I get asked a lot is “David, how do you rebuild trust once you’ve lost it? And we’ve all made mistakes. How do you rebuild it?” So we have a 10-step process in the coaching plan. I think the first book I had a 15-step process, but a 10-step process for rebuilding trust, if you’re a big company with an oil spill. Whether you’re a big company or you’re an individual, it actually comes down to one thing, and many people think it’s the apology, when in fact you never rebuild trust on the apology. It doesn’t mean you don’t need to apologize for mistakes you’ve made to open the door of communication, but you never rebuild trust… Because we’ve got people saying, “Well, I’m sorry, I’m late, David.”

David Horsager:

No, you’re late every day. “I’m sorry I’m late. I’m sorry I’m late.” “No, you say that everyday.” We don’t ever rebuild trust on the apology. The only way to rebuild trust comes down to one thing, whether you’re a big company or an individual, and this is important for leaders to know. The only way to rebuild trust actually is to make and keep a new commitment.

Tricia Sciortino:

I was going to say change the behavior.

David Horsager:

Yeah, but you have to make a commitment publicly and do something. Behavior, but so that comes under the commitment pillar. Okay, so let’s go up to the clarity pillar for a quick takeaway. There’s so many under this clarity pillar, we give so many ways to get clear, because little tactics and ways can change market share, can change trust in the leader and all this, but I’m going to give one simple one. Okay, It’s a simple three-question process that actually drives strategic clarity or takes an idea to an action. People get stuck on the questions, three questions that drive strategic clarity or take an idea to an action. Okay, it’s not the why. There’s a lot there about the why right now. Have a great why, sing kumbaya about it, all that. By the way, that’s great. Why gives passion. Why gives purpose. Still have your why. I’m not saying don’t.

David Horsager:

There’s a lot out there, of course. And I agree with much of Colin’s work on who. Have the right who’s on the bus, get the right who’s, you want to have the right who’s. Get a who from BELAY. Get the right who, there’s a lot of good in that. However, I still see buses full of fun who’s singing about their why going right off the cliff and not doing anything. Okay.

Tricia Sciortino:

That’s great.

David Horsager:

So as we take an idea to an action? What are the three questions that actually give us hope, because we can actually change something? These are the three questions. Okay. Try to listen as if for the first time, because these three questions are exact.

Tricia Sciortino:

I’m taking notes, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

David Horsager:

They changed the culture of the second biggest healthcare organization in North America. This is the way I lost 52 pounds in five months. Kept it off, which is much bigger and better than the Biggest Loser. I think 6 out of 150 people have kept their weight off. Then we’ve had people triple sales, lots of things here. So what are the three questions? Number one. “Okay. We want that thing.” How, how? Okay. Second question, Tricia, way more important. It is, how? The third is the most important of all. It is, how?

Tricia Sciortino:

I see where you’re going with this.

David Horsager:

So listen. Ladies and gentlemen listening,

Tricia Sciortino:

You’re speaking my language with the how, because I’m an operator.

David Horsager:

How, how, how, how?

Tricia Sciortino:

I’m always how, how, how, how, how, how.

David Horsager:

Yes. Right. Yeah. Exactly. So people have to ask how until they can do it today or tomorrow. That how gives hope. Most people stop here instead of here. I’m saying drill down on hows until you can do something. By the way, I’ve worked at some of the biggest companies in the world, the biggest of the biggest companies, for sure, in the world, some of the biggest countries globally. I remember doing this with, I’m not going to say the country, but leadership, they think, “Oh, we got 50 rocks in 32 goals on us. We can never get…” They always can. Every table, every person can get to a final how. How you do that then? Let’s just take it a couple different ways. The biggest healthcare organization North America. I sit with the CEO, “We did all this trust work.”

David Horsager:

I said, “What do you really want to see change?” “We need a better culture.” “Okay, great. How are you going to start to have a better culture?” We’re going to be more clear. We like your clarity pillar.” Okay, great. Do I trust him yet? Not for a second. “How are you going to be more clear?” “We’re going to communicate more.” Do I trust him yet? Not for a second. “How are you going to communicate?” “We’re going to hold each other accountable.” I still don’t trust him. That’s not actionable?” “How you going to hold each other accountable? I asked how seven more times that CEO got to something that he could do differently tomorrow morning. Then we did it with the leadership team. They said seven years later, that was the tipping point, because they understood how to get to how they can act on tomorrow. And most people stop here instead of here.

David Horsager:

My weight, everybody told me, “All you got to do is eat less, exercise more.” That was not clear enough. Okay. So I said, “Okay, how am I going to take in less calories?” Okay. Boom, boom, boom, boom. How, how, how, how. Until one of them was, “I’m not going to drink a calorie on a plane.” I can look at it. “Okay. Fresca instead of Coke.” I was drinking Cokes, bad. So now you sit next to me. I never, almost never have a calorie on a plane, unless I put a little cream in my coffee. So the how is something you can act on today or tomorrow. “I want to sell more.” “Okay. How are you going to do that?” “I’m going to call more people.” “Okay, great. How are you going to do that?” Basically, I’m just going to call more people.” “No, you’re not. You had that opportunity yesterday. How are you going to call more people?” “Well, I got to get a list.” “Okay. Now, how are you going to get a list?” “Okay. I’m going to do this.” Okay. “By tomorrow at 10:00 AM.”

David Horsager:

The final how, final how always has a who, when and where? So if it’s me, I final how, okay, it’s me. I know I’m the one doing it, but I’m going to work out tomorrow morning. If I don’t know it’s 5:30 in the morning, I won’t do it. If I don’t know where, I’m either going to go to the gym or run out the door. If I have a choice at 5:30, let me tell you, no choices. Choices don’t work. I got to know where. When you do this on teams and with the companies, we press people to do how plans every 90 days at least. We have a university of football team that changed their win cycle. They do them after every game, every seven days, like “How are we going to win next week?” How, how, how every position group, every individual, whatever. As a team, if you ever do this as a group also there’s got to be a final who.

David Horsager:

Ladies and gentlemen, you have been lied to. Co-leadership is terrible. Collaborative leadership is excellent. Collaborate, collaborate, collaborate. If you ever see someone tell me, “Well, yeah, but what about those co-CEOs?” The only way it is ever working is when they have different responsibilities, co-leadership is, the data, 50% less things get done when there’s two people that are leading anything. So a final person. So a final how has a final who, when and where? So what I would do right now, if I never get to talk to anybody again here today in this amazing BELAY group, which I’ve been so excited to talk to you and, yeah, this is fun. I’ve read a lot about you. I’ve read the the Hyatt books and this is really fun.

David Horsager:

This is what I would do. I would take those eight pillars. I would underline one that you think you’re doing well, or two. I bet you’re doing one or two well, and then I would think, “Okay, which one. If I built that pillar with somebody or some group. With my sales team, with a client, with my 17 year old daughter, whoever it was. I would go, “Okay. I want more consistency here.” Okay. How, how, how, how, how, how, how until you can do something today or tomorrow.

Tricia Sciortino:

Tomorrow. That is brilliant. I love it. There has been so much, I don’t know, and you talk really fast, so it’s really hard to take notes. So I can’t wait for this podcast to come out, so I can re-listen to it back and feverously take notes. Or maybe I’ll just take those show notes with me.

David Horsager:

Some people go two times on podcasts, usually when I’m on, they just can go normal speed.

Tricia Sciortino:

You can go normal speed and it’s like two times. I love it. You jam packed so much goodness and information in this interview. Thank you so much for being on the podcast with us today, David. This has been an absolute pleasure. I know anybody listening to this podcast right now is walking away feeling like they’ve got some work to do and they have a step to take. So I really do appreciate your time.

David Horsager:

Tricia, thank you so much. It’s been just a pleasure for me.

Tricia Sciortino:

Well, was that not the best One Next Step Podcast episode you ever did listen to. What amazing energy from David. There was so many insightful things he spoke about. I don’t know if I could have one takeaway, but I’m going to pick one guys and I’m going to pick his three-step clarity process. How, how, how. What a fascinating way to think through how to take your next steps on these eight pillars of trust. How, how, how, how, how, how until you get to your actionable item, the thing you’re going to do tomorrow. Absolutely loved it. And we have a tremendous download for you. So you can take your One Next Step.

Tricia Sciortino:

This week’s download is David’s trusted leader masterclass. You can get a link to his full course by visiting the show notes page. Text the phrase One Next Step to 31996, or visit onenextsteppodcast.com and you’ll get access to today’s resource and the show notes to keep you moving forward. There’s going to be a lot of resources in today’s show notes. Thank you for joining us. Join us next week for another great episode of the One Next Step. Start by making today count.

Lisa Zeeveld:

Tune in next week for our interview with BELAY’s vice president of marketing Dorian Usherwood. Dorian will talk to us about using brand experience to really move your company forward. This is some great stuff that you don’t want to miss.

Dorian Usherwood:

If you look at a great external brand experience, it’s one that creates brand ambassadors of people that aren’t even employees of that company. A great internal brand experiences is how your employees experience the company, how they’re treated, guided, empowered, and the freedom you give them to do their best work. And the difference it makes is manifested in an employee or a customer staying or leaving.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for listening to One Next Step. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or follow us on Spotify. Then join us next time for more practical business tips and tools to help you get more done, grow your business and lead your team with confidence. For more episodes, show notes and helpful resources, visit onenextsteppodcast.com.

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